Messing around with Dark Radiant and TDM Demo

[Gildoran 0]

Are you planning on using cubemaps for metal objects etc? Not sure that I saw any in the demo.

I don't think any current metal textures do that... usually relying on specular maps looks better for metal since it takes into account normalmaps and the lighting of the environment. However, at least one of our mappers likes to use cubemaps for reflections in windows and on polished shiny floors. It's pretty effective, though it tends to look overly bright if all the lights get snuffed.

[plasticman 16]

Well,

questions about outdoor lighting made me remember a tutorial on this I read some time ago. Dug it up:

 

http://www.katsbits.com/htm/tutorials/doom...ing_outdoor.htm

 

It must be linked somewhere from D3W, so it's nothing new. But nontheless useful, since it also mentions light optimisation.

 

And it has nice screenshots, too!

[STiFU 753]

So Gildoran, how did you implement the distorted reflections on the water surface?

[Gildoran 0]

I didn't implement them. I believe they came with the water physics mod, and were integrated into TDM by other members (Dram?).

 

The distorted reflections are implemented using a combination of mirrors and vertex/fragment shaders (limited programs that are run on the graphics card once per-vertex or per-pixel). For example "heathaze.vfp" is used for glass and heat distortion effects in vanilla D3, so it's well suited for water effects. There are other similar vertex/fragment shaders. The distortion effectively works by rendering the scene, then for each water pixel, you copy a nearby pixel into it. This is not the same as refraction (in fact, I highly doubt any current game supports true refraction), and it results in a whole bunch of annoying artifacts, described here.

 

Note: I'm never quite sure how much technical detail/accuracy people are interested in... if I'm not going into enough detail, or if I'm assuming too much prior knowledge, feel free to say so or ask any questions and I'll do my best to adjust and answer what I can.

[Tels 278]

here.

 

Note: I'm never quite sure how much technical detail/accuracy people are interested in... if I'm not going into enough detail, or if I'm assuming too much prior knowledge, feel free to say so or ask any questions and I'll do my best to adjust and answer what I can.

 

That thread was very interesting, thanx

 

There is a reason why my map level has transparent windows that are not visible through each other

[mangrove 0]

I don't think any current metal textures do that... usually relying on specular maps looks better for metal since it takes into account normalmaps and the lighting of the environment. However, at least one of our mappers likes to use cubemaps for reflections in windows and on polished shiny floors. It's pretty effective, though it tends to look overly bright if all the lights get snuffed.

 

Yeah I suppose it isn't such a good idea for objects. For it to be convincing you'd have to create an envshot for every room in the map and then come up with some way to fade between cubemaps and switch off when the lights go out.

 

That and the fact that the thief world tends to be quite filthy and run down, so a lot of buff reflective stuff would take away from that I guess.

[mangrove 0]

Just made some sexy cheese btw.

 

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj114/m...vedm/cheese.jpg

[sparhawk 17]

UÄH! That's blue cheese. I hate it!

 

But it looks good.

[Springheel 4645]

Nice cheese! If you'd like to donate it, let us know.

[mangrove 0]

Yeah it's stilton I'm not too keen on it either, but it was in the fridge. Thought I might as well get a snap of it.

 

Sure you can have it. Just gimme somewhere to dump it.

[Springheel 4645]

You could email it to me at eric 'at' mindplaces.com and I'll pop it in game. We don't have much variety when it comes to food atm, and this would look great.

[mangrove 0]

Ok, done.

[Tels 278]

Just made some sexy cheese btw.

 

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj114/m...vedm/cheese.jpg

 

Nice! I guess we can skin it to make just yellow cheese, as well cheese with hole for these people who don't like blue cheese.

 

Would also cool if you could add some smaller slices or a small bit (to build a mouse trap

[Gildoran 0]

Yeah I suppose it isn't such a good idea for objects. For it to be convincing you'd have to create an envshot for every room in the map and then come up with some way to fade between cubemaps and switch off when the lights go out.

It can be fairly convincing even if the cubemap isn't an env-shot of the surrounding room. For example, if you look at the motivational posters in vanilla D3, they all use the same cubemap to simulate glass reflections throughout the game. It only starts to look jarring if the room is much darker than the reflection. But yeah, it tends to work best if the mapper can control the area the material is in.

 

BTW, I've seen Dram use cubemaps to very good effect... In addition to windows and tile floors, he used an envshot to provide cheap reflective water, and due to the size/position of the pond and the unchanging outdoor lighting, it looked nearly as good as real reflective water.

[Crispy 8]

@envshots for reflective water: I think there's one in angua's Bonehoard-inspired level as well. Looks very pretty and runs well. The key benefit, obviously, is that avoids the performance penalty of rendering the entire room twice. And this was a pretty big and complicated room.

 

Would also cool if you could add some smaller slices or a small bit (to build a mouse trap

Hmm... rat-catching minigame, anyone?

[STiFU 753]

So I assume that it's basically possible to render authentic distorted reflections with Doom 3 even without an envmap? Sounded a bit like it...

[mangrove 0]

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj114/m...m/mousetrap.jpg

 

Mousetrap, available in one different sizes. (Cheese sold seperately)

 

Do you people have a list of models/ needed models?

[greebo 69]

Do you people have a list of models/ needed models?

Absolutely. I assume Springheel will soon show up and give you something to chew on, no worries.

[Tels 278]

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj114/m...m/mousetrap.jpg

 

Mousetrap, available in one different sizes. (Cheese sold seperately)

 

That's very cool. But now you can expect Springheel to chime and say it "is too modern"....

 

"The first mouse trap was invented by William C. Hooker of Abingdon Illinois, who received US patent 528671 for his design in 1894[1]." - Wikipedia

 

Just joking, if I ever hear "it is too modern", I am gonna bury someone in cheese. So better watch it!

 

(Warning: if you love fluffy small rodents, do not read the wikipedia article about mousetraps - it is quite cruel.)

[Tels 278]

Just in question someone asks how people lived with mice before the mousetrap was invented:

 

The used silly things (like hunting cats and burning them as "witches") and clever things (like putting food into metal cages and then drawing them up to the ceiling with chains or strings.

 

Getting such food cages as models would be interesting, as it would be actually medivial times authentic

 

I haven't been able to locate photos, but here is one interesting page:

 

http://www.absinthes-anderswelt.de/kueche.htm#geraet

 

Showing a "dreyfuß" (three-leg), put directly into the fire to cook, a thing to clean your hands, and last but not least a container for liquids, used for storage and to put them out on the table.

[Tels 278]

More links:

 

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esskultur_im_Mittelalter (German)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_cuisine (English)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_household (English)

[Springheel 4645]

But now you can expect Springheel to chime and say it "is too modern"....

 

 

Ah, you know me so well already. I'd love to see one of those 'cage' ones though.

 

Your cheese is already in game, mangrove, thanks. You seem to have a knack for this, do you have any interest in signing up as a team-member? If not, I can post a list of desired objects anyway, but it might be easier to just come aboard and have access to all the info yourself.

[mangrove 0]

Well, if I'm still here in a month or two I might, but for now I'm happy just to contribute.

 

 

Post the list then

[mangrove 0]

(Warning: if you love fluffy small rodents, do not read the wikipedia article about mousetraps - it is quite cruel.)

 

Yeah, I came up with quite a few maimed mice in search for photo refs

[Tels 278]

Ah, you know me so well already.

 

I didn't mention that forks where invented in late medivial times

 

I'd love to see one of those 'cage' ones though.

 

I saw them in Burg Eltz, but I now regret I didn't buy the book with all the photos and I can't seem to find it on the web.

 

They basically looked a bit like bird cages, with a chain on top and some pulley system on the ceiling so you could raise/lower them.

 

The "cage" was probably used instead of a pot so that you could look up and say "the sausages are in the one at left, and the bread's in this one" without having to remember it.

 

Btw, it was also usual to have a cooking pot that was attached on a sort of gear rack, so you could lower/raise the pot over the fire. Gave birth to a famous German proverb:

 

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zahn_zulegen

http://www.wdrmaus.de/sachgeschichten/spri...r/zahn_zulegen/

 

(Sorry, only in German, but it has teh picturez!!)

 

I'll see if I can get to Burg Elzt again and buy their book for references