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Soon the prophecy will be fulfilled.

Prophecies don't work in real life. :mellow:

 

Thanks for the link, it was interesting, but less melodrama please? :) It would also be nice if you actually had content in your posts and said what the links were about rather than trying to be all "woo i'm mysterious lol".

My games | Public Service Announcement: TDM is not set in the Thief universe. The city in which it takes place is not the City from Thief. The player character is not called Garrett. Any person who contradicts these facts will be subjected to disapproving stares.
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My what shrewed force of Common Sense is this not inside the Deus Ex 3 thread...?

Too late to save us but try to understand

The seas were empty -- there was hunger in the land

We let the madmen write the golden rules

We were just Children of the Moon

We're lost in the middle of a hopeless world

Children, Children of the Moon watch the world go by

Children, Children of the Moon are hiding from the Sun and the Sky

 

© The Alan Parsons Project - Children of the Moon

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I wonder if we'll get videos admitting how and why they fucked up the Thief franchise as well.

He's basically telling it how it is there as regards DX2 "If you're taking 20 million of someone's money then you owe to them to sell out and cater to the generic gamer population, if you do anything high brow or innovative, they simply won't understand it"

We all know that already of course, but it nice to hear them admitting it.

Civillisation will not attain perfection until the last stone, from the last church, falls on the last priest.

- Emil Zola

 

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I doubt it, since the bottom line is that they'll be taking x millions of some publishers money again, to make a game that will have to be equally generic enough for everyone to understand and enjoy it.

They don't seem to think its possible to cater to hardcore gamers wishes, keep integrity and intelligence and a level of maturity in the content AND make the game accessible and popular with to Joe Average at the same time.

Civillisation will not attain perfection until the last stone, from the last church, falls on the last priest.

- Emil Zola

 

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Right, I wouldn't expect much in the way of change for the better, regardless of any enlightened sounding postmortem discussions, as long as the stance remains "but, you know, we have to try to make money, so what else can we do?"

 

The idiocy is mindboggling; the answer, right in front of their faces.

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It's hard to say. Looking at my favourite games, they were reasonably popular and sold reasonably well, though none were lucrative blockbusters at the time, save maybe Baldur's Gate 2..

It depends just how much money the publisher is aiming for - if they really don't care one iota about quality content are ONLY going for mass market appeal to sell as many copies to as many people as possible, or they are at least willing to compromise and make a game that will be more appreciated, but by a fewer number of people.

This is where the developer really has to stand up to them and push for the latter (assuming that the development studio boss is not just there for the fat pay check as well)

Civillisation will not attain perfection until the last stone, from the last church, falls on the last priest.

- Emil Zola

 

character models site

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I doubt it, since the bottom line is that they'll be taking x millions of some publishers money again, to make a game that will have to be equally generic enough for everyone to understand and enjoy it.

They don't seem to think its possible to cater to hardcore gamers wishes, keep integrity and intelligence and a level of maturity in the content AND make the game accessible and popular with to Joe Average at the same time.

 

There isn't a large enough hardcore audience for Deus Ex and Thief to sell well. It has to cater to a more broad audience because it needs to be profitable. The only other option would be to have a smaller studio but that is not the course that has been taken.

 

However I am interested to see how Deus Ex 3 and Thief 4 will turn out. Something like Bioshock but with more replay value would be great.

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I think too many people (such as yourself) assume that game developers are all good guys who are there because they love games , and admire and worship them.

It's not the case. It's just a career to most people. They're doing a 9 to 5 in an office and getting paid for it, the same as someone working in an accountancy firm.

Also, only one or two people in the organisation get to actually make the final decisions that matter, most people are just workhorses, doing what they're told to, and are not going to kick up a fuss because they don't think the game is living up to their expectations.

Civillisation will not attain perfection until the last stone, from the last church, falls on the last priest.

- Emil Zola

 

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Yeah, the only thing you can hope for is someone with a sensible long term goal that drives them to make something that is both commercially successful AND critically acclaimed by reviewers and fans alike.

Or for someone who banks his coffers from a commercially successful venture, and uses that to fund their magnum opus of critical acclaim, likely to fail commercially but the risk won't take them into the negative. I'm waiting for Ken Levine to show his true colors in that regard, since Bioshock (or System Shock console-lite) sold well.

Loose BOWELS are the first sign of THE CHOLERA MORBUS!
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It depends just how much money the publisher is aiming for - if they really don't care one iota about quality content are ONLY going for mass market appeal to sell as many copies to as many people as possible, or they are at least willing to compromise and make a game that will be more appreciated, but by a fewer number of people.

This is where the developer really has to stand up to them and push for the latter (assuming that the development studio boss is not just there for the fat pay check as well)

Have you checked out the independent/freeware games communities? If you really want to exorcise mass-market appeal from everything you play, in preference for games that were made purely for the love of it (rather than for the money), perhaps you should be looking there.

 

http://www.tigsource.com/

http://www.gametunnel.com/

My games | Public Service Announcement: TDM is not set in the Thief universe. The city in which it takes place is not the City from Thief. The player character is not called Garrett. Any person who contradicts these facts will be subjected to disapproving stares.
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The only problem with those sort of independent titles is that they all seem to be the sort of dinky little games you got in arcades 20 years ago. Nothing but a mindless and fruitless way to pass some time.

I've moved on from that need these days, and I require something slightly more....substantial.

I need an actual reason to play a game, other than to fill some time. I've plenty of other uses for it.

Civillisation will not attain perfection until the last stone, from the last church, falls on the last priest.

- Emil Zola

 

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The only proper indie game I remember is Mount&Blade, and even then, it is kinda unfinished/unpolished... that's why people keep looking at the big companies - game development is just not cheap.

Too late to save us but try to understand

The seas were empty -- there was hunger in the land

We let the madmen write the golden rules

We were just Children of the Moon

We're lost in the middle of a hopeless world

Children, Children of the Moon watch the world go by

Children, Children of the Moon are hiding from the Sun and the Sky

 

© The Alan Parsons Project - Children of the Moon

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There are plenty of good indie games, and most of them aren't arcade clones. :) Problem is, most people have never heard of them, because indies don't tend to market very well.

 

What do you mean by "substantial"? I can recommend plenty of good indie games, but I know you're insufferably picky and I'm not sure exactly what your criteria actually are.

 

For everyone except oDDity, here are a few random suggestions off the top of my head; this is not an exhaustive list, nor it is a "top" list. Just a few that come to mind.

 

Aquaria: Sort of like Metroid, but with lots of exploration, and underwater. Excellent presentation and polish. You will need an attention span for the exploration parts; this is probably a good thing.

 

Democracy (1 and 2): Politics sim game. Try to win an election! oDDity might actually like this. Then again, he might not. Who knows.

 

Starscape: It's a kind of Asteroids/build-your-own-ship/shmup thing. Except better than I'm making it sound.

 

Mr Robot: Isometric RPG/puzzle game, by the same guys who made Starscape (Moonpod).

 

Professor Fizzwizzle: Neat little series of puzzlers.

 

Mayhem Intergalactic: This one is mine. It's a simplified space strategy game, sort of Risk-like, only not. oDDity wouldn't like it. The rest of you probably would. ;)

 

I'd go on, but it's midnight and I need sleep. :)

 

All of these games are reasonably polished, and stand little chance of ever being made in situations when $20 million is at stake. And they're darned affordable, too.

 

Edit: There's a massive list here. I haven't played most of those.

My games | Public Service Announcement: TDM is not set in the Thief universe. The city in which it takes place is not the City from Thief. The player character is not called Garrett. Any person who contradicts these facts will be subjected to disapproving stares.
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