The interview you've been waiting for

[Unstoppable]

Soon the prophecy will be fulfilled.

 

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=MGIdYl2oN74

[Mr Retarded]

Are you ever going to start a topic that isn't one ballsack sentence and then a link to something that will have been noticed by the people that care?

[Unstoppable]

To download all the Warren Spector interviews head on over to Deus Ex 3 forums. forums.eidosgames.com

[Crispy]

Soon the prophecy will be fulfilled.

Prophecies don't work in real life.

 

Thanks for the link, it was interesting, but less melodrama please? It would also be nice if you actually had content in your posts and said what the links were about rather than trying to be all "woo i'm mysterious lol".

[Unstoppable]

http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=76471

[Mr Retarded]

Hah!

 

Touché!

 

That is, if the prior post was read?

[SneaksieDave]

YOU READ IT HERE FIRST. REMEMBER THAT!

 

AND I GUESS WE ALL KNOW WHO WE HAVE TO THANK, TOO, EH? LINE UP, BITCHES.

[Forsaken]

My what shrewed force of Common Sense is this not inside the Deus Ex 3 thread...?

[oDDity]

I wonder if we'll get videos admitting how and why they fucked up the Thief franchise as well.

He's basically telling it how it is there as regards DX2 "If you're taking 20 million of someone's money then you owe to them to sell out and cater to the generic gamer population, if you do anything high brow or innovative, they simply won't understand it"

We all know that already of course, but it nice to hear them admitting it.

[Subjective Effect]

Chat about messing up Thief would be good, yes. It's more than nice hearing them admit to the problems because at least we now know they aren't in some unreceptive bubble (like some people) and perhaps, just perhaps, lessons will be learnt.

[oDDity]

I doubt it, since the bottom line is that they'll be taking x millions of some publishers money again, to make a game that will have to be equally generic enough for everyone to understand and enjoy it.

They don't seem to think its possible to cater to hardcore gamers wishes, keep integrity and intelligence and a level of maturity in the content AND make the game accessible and popular with to Joe Average at the same time.

[SneaksieDave]

Right, I wouldn't expect much in the way of change for the better, regardless of any enlightened sounding postmortem discussions, as long as the stance remains "but, you know, we have to try to make money, so what else can we do?"

 

The idiocy is mindboggling; the answer, right in front of their faces.

[Subjective Effect]

They don't seem to think its possible to cater to hardcore gamers wishes, keep integrity and intelligence and a level of maturity in the content AND make the game accessible and popular with to Joe Average at the same time.

Do you?

 

Edit: post-blocked!

[oDDity]

It's hard to say. Looking at my favourite games, they were reasonably popular and sold reasonably well, though none were lucrative blockbusters at the time, save maybe Baldur's Gate 2..

It depends just how much money the publisher is aiming for - if they really don't care one iota about quality content are ONLY going for mass market appeal to sell as many copies to as many people as possible, or they are at least willing to compromise and make a game that will be more appreciated, but by a fewer number of people.

This is where the developer really has to stand up to them and push for the latter (assuming that the development studio boss is not just there for the fat pay check as well)

[Unstoppable]

I doubt it, since the bottom line is that they'll be taking x millions of some publishers money again, to make a game that will have to be equally generic enough for everyone to understand and enjoy it.

They don't seem to think its possible to cater to hardcore gamers wishes, keep integrity and intelligence and a level of maturity in the content AND make the game accessible and popular with to Joe Average at the same time.

 

There isn't a large enough hardcore audience for Deus Ex and Thief to sell well. It has to cater to a more broad audience because it needs to be profitable. The only other option would be to have a smaller studio but that is not the course that has been taken.

 

However I am interested to see how Deus Ex 3 and Thief 4 will turn out. Something like Bioshock but with more replay value would be great.

[oDDity]

I think too many people (such as yourself) assume that game developers are all good guys who are there because they love games , and admire and worship them.

It's not the case. It's just a career to most people. They're doing a 9 to 5 in an office and getting paid for it, the same as someone working in an accountancy firm.

Also, only one or two people in the organisation get to actually make the final decisions that matter, most people are just workhorses, doing what they're told to, and are not going to kick up a fuss because they don't think the game is living up to their expectations.

[Subjective Effect]

Yeah, the only thing you can hope for is someone with a sensible long term goal that drives them to make something that is both commercially successful AND critically acclaimed by reviewers and fans alike.

[Vadrosaul]

Yeah, the only thing you can hope for is someone with a sensible long term goal that drives them to make something that is both commercially successful AND critically acclaimed by reviewers and fans alike.

Or for someone who banks his coffers from a commercially successful venture, and uses that to fund their magnum opus of critical acclaim, likely to fail commercially but the risk won't take them into the negative. I'm waiting for Ken Levine to show his true colors in that regard, since Bioshock (or System Shock console-lite) sold well.

[Subjective Effect]

If Ken is able to produce something great that isn't necessarily aimed at making a commercial success but just at being awesome all will be forgiven and the BioShock debacle will have been worth it. One can hope. Not that much though.

[Crispy]

It depends just how much money the publisher is aiming for - if they really don't care one iota about quality content are ONLY going for mass market appeal to sell as many copies to as many people as possible, or they are at least willing to compromise and make a game that will be more appreciated, but by a fewer number of people.

This is where the developer really has to stand up to them and push for the latter (assuming that the development studio boss is not just there for the fat pay check as well)

Have you checked out the independent/freeware games communities? If you really want to exorcise mass-market appeal from everything you play, in preference for games that were made purely for the love of it (rather than for the money), perhaps you should be looking there.

 

http://www.tigsource.com/

http://www.gametunnel.com/

[oDDity]

The only problem with those sort of independent titles is that they all seem to be the sort of dinky little games you got in arcades 20 years ago. Nothing but a mindless and fruitless way to pass some time.

I've moved on from that need these days, and I require something slightly more....substantial.

I need an actual reason to play a game, other than to fill some time. I've plenty of other uses for it.

[Forsaken]

The only proper indie game I remember is Mount&Blade, and even then, it is kinda unfinished/unpolished... that's why people keep looking at the big companies - game development is just not cheap.

[Unstoppable]

Audiosurf is a good indie game. You can play your music while playing the game.

[jdude]

I really liked this interview, I really liked what he said about 'selling out'. I've never played the original dues ex, but I remember I really liked Dues ex 2, perhaps I should try dues ex

[Crispy]

There are plenty of good indie games, and most of them aren't arcade clones. Problem is, most people have never heard of them, because indies don't tend to market very well.

 

What do you mean by "substantial"? I can recommend plenty of good indie games, but I know you're insufferably picky and I'm not sure exactly what your criteria actually are.

 

For everyone except oDDity, here are a few random suggestions off the top of my head; this is not an exhaustive list, nor it is a "top" list. Just a few that come to mind.

 

Aquaria: Sort of like Metroid, but with lots of exploration, and underwater. Excellent presentation and polish. You will need an attention span for the exploration parts; this is probably a good thing.

 

Democracy (1 and 2): Politics sim game. Try to win an election! oDDity might actually like this. Then again, he might not. Who knows.

 

Starscape: It's a kind of Asteroids/build-your-own-ship/shmup thing. Except better than I'm making it sound.

 

Mr Robot: Isometric RPG/puzzle game, by the same guys who made Starscape (Moonpod).

 

Professor Fizzwizzle: Neat little series of puzzlers.

 

Mayhem Intergalactic: This one is mine. It's a simplified space strategy game, sort of Risk-like, only not. oDDity wouldn't like it. The rest of you probably would.

 

I'd go on, but it's midnight and I need sleep.

 

All of these games are reasonably polished, and stand little chance of ever being made in situations when $20 million is at stake. And they're darned affordable, too.

 

Edit: There's a massive list here. I haven't played most of those.