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SneaksieDave

Blatant plagiarism

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Yeah, the profile just strikes me as outright pathological.

 

I am trying to find a place in Europe to buy this game from, seems only Amazon USA has it. :(

 

It is just for my collection. :D

 

Anyway, it looks like they even stole the title:

 

http://www.amazon.de/Limbo-Lost-John-Walla...8621&sr=8-2

 

Wow. :blink:


"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

 

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

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Anyway, it looks like they even stole the title!

Well let's not go overboard, you need to seperate the blatant plagiarism from coincidence and unoriginality. There are very few original ideas left in the world, so you'll always find a title that matches another, or a similar scene in any book, film or game. People are inspired by art to create similar art. Just look at the Dark Mod. ;)

 

World of Wacraft seems happy with being essentially an exact copy of Warhammer which is pretty much an exact copy of LOTR!

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I am trying to find a place in Europe to buy this game from, seems only Amazon USA has it. :(

I really don't see why you'd want to buy it. Surely that only encourages this kind of plagiarism.

 

If you want to check it out, pirate it. I don't normally advocate piracy (quite the opposite) but in this case I think it's warranted. It's not like the developer has a moral right to complain - the whole thing is made of stolen material anyway.


My games | Public Service Announcement: TDM is not set in the Thief universe. The city in which it takes place is not the City from Thief. The player character is not called Garrett. Any person who contradicts these facts will be subjected to disapproving stares.

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it's a popular torrent this past week, tons of seeders everywhere :)


shadowdark50.gif keep50.gif

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Can they still ask for money for their "product"? I guess until legal action is taken, they can still charge for "their" game.


Loose BOWELS are the first sign of THE CHOLERA MORBUS!

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It's illegal to make or sell copyright-infringing material. (Under criminal law as well as civil law; copyright spans both areas.) So they've already broken the law just by making the game, and by selling it to begin with; continuing to sell it would worsen the offence.

 

It's been pulled from store shelves, obviously. Apart from ethical concerns, I imagine there would be legal consequences for selling the game while knowing that it was a product of copyright infringement. (They're probably safe with regards to the copies sold when they didn't know about it, though.)

 

Which raises the interesting point that all those eBay auctions trying to get rid of the thing may themselves be illegal... :)


My games | Public Service Announcement: TDM is not set in the Thief universe. The city in which it takes place is not the City from Thief. The player character is not called Garrett. Any person who contradicts these facts will be subjected to disapproving stares.

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Indeed, why pay for something like this? I wouldn't put a single dollar in their pockets.

 

The money might go into their pocket, but I doubt this. It won't get further than the publisher, anyway. (And most of it is tax and shipping, too).

 

I'd pay for it, just to:

 

* put that box into a display stand in my home with a sign "greatest stupid clusterfuck ever"

* the money I pay the small publisher will get sucked out of them faster than blood from a damsel in distress by a vampire and eventually end up with the proper right holders - or their lawyers at last :D


"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

 

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

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It's illegal to make or sell copyright-infringing material. (Under criminal law as well as civil law; copyright spans both areas.) So they've already broken the law just by making the game, and by selling it to begin with; continuing to sell it would worsen the offence.

 

It is _NOT_ illegal to "make copyright-infringing material", because, duh!, it is not yet illegal before you start to sell or distribute it. I can make any game like this all day long, but as long as I never distribute or sell it, it is perfectly legal.

 

(Plus, the legal backgrounds are quite different between America, Europe and Australia, anyway, so comparing things is a bit silly)

 

Otherwise you would next have to explain to me how you can ever read a book - making copyright-infringing copies in your mind all the time :D

 

It's been pulled from store shelves, obviously. Apart from ethical concerns, I imagine there would be legal consequences for selling the game while knowing that it was a product of copyright infringement. (They're probably safe with regards to the copies sold when they didn't know about it, though.)

 

Which raises the interesting point that all those eBay auctions trying to get rid of the thing may themselves be illegal... :)

 

Interesting point, but tell this Amazon USA, which still sells the game as a few days ago :)


"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

 

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

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One thing I'd like to point out is that I asked specifically "where to buy a box of this game".

 

And in true internet tradition, 5 people sprung to their keyboards pointing out why I shouldn't wouldn't and couldn't buy this game, but none answered my question *sigh*

 

Sometimes I wish someone who can't answer the question would just keep quiet. If I need legal or moral or practical counsel, I'd tell you so. :rolleyes:


"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

 

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

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It is _NOT_ illegal to "make copyright-infringing material", because, duh!, it is not yet illegal before you start to sell or distribute it. I can make any game like this all day long, but as long as I never distribute or sell it, it is perfectly legal.

Wrong:

 

Copyright laws grant the creator the exclusive right to reproduce, prepare derivative works, distribute, perform and display the work publicly.

I suggest you go read http://whatiscopyright.org - it seems you need a refresher course.

 

(Plus, the legal backgrounds are quite different between America, Europe and Australia, anyway, so comparing things is a bit silly)

Somewhat different, yes, but very similar in principle thanks to various copyright treaties (such as the Berne Convention).

 

Otherwise you would next have to explain to me how you can ever read a book - making copyright-infringing copies in your mind all the time :D

Don't be ridiculous. Viewing a work with the permission of the author is allowed. The fact that they've published it clearly demonstrates that they're OK with people reading it.

 

Interesting point, but tell this Amazon USA, which still sells the game as a few days ago :)

That would be their problem, not mine.

 

If I need legal or moral or practical counsel, I'd tell you so. :rolleyes:

Evidently not, because you do and you didn't. :P


My games | Public Service Announcement: TDM is not set in the Thief universe. The city in which it takes place is not the City from Thief. The player character is not called Garrett. Any person who contradicts these facts will be subjected to disapproving stares.

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This game, apart from its obvious hilarity, looks absolutely horrible! :P

 

I had to skip to 6:50, then got bored watching him walk around really slow.

 

Even worse, the backgrounds are static, so they basically took pictures of inside the games and used them as their backdrops. Why even do that? lol!

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Don't be ridiculous. Viewing a work with the permission of the author is allowed. The fact that they've published it clearly demonstrates that they're OK with people reading it.

 

It is a sad comment on the state of modern society that the legality of viewing a copyrighted work would even need to be questioned or discussed. If the author's permission is required to view a copyrighted work, the state of IP law is even more fucked than I imagined.

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It is a sad comment on the state of modern society that the legality of viewing a copyrighted work would even need to be questioned or discussed. If the author's permission is required to view a copyrighted work, the state of IP law is even more fucked than I imagined.

 

This was laughed at, but now it has become reality:

 

http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html

 

Did you know that you are only allowed to view a DVD on a licensed player? So, technically, you can view it all day long as often as you want - but only after you have paid a small one-time fee for your license player.

 

So, watching it on linux is not legal, because you don't have a license to your software player. Watching it on your 10€ chinese player (where the manufacturer didn't pay Phillips 23 € or so for the license) is equally illegal.

 

And now imagine that in a few years school books come only in DVD or download form and then read the above link again.

 

IP law is pretty much fucked up, because it still tries to declare water wet and dry at the same time.

 

The entire "do not prepare derivative works" mentioned on the WIPO page falls into the same bullshit trap.

 

The page doesn't even mention the source for "prepare derivative works" - and whether this is actually illegal and where exactly.

 

Apart from that, it is totally unclear what exactly is a derivative work - courts routinely debate forth and to with experts and evaluate each case on a case by case basis (which should tell you how confusing foggy the law is).

 

Plus, how should anybody ever *know* that I prepare that work without spying on me? (If I am not stupid enough to publish it afterwards).

 

And then there is the whole "fair use" thingy, which renders a lot of things moot.

 

But I digres. Back to do useful work.


"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

 

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

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This was laughed at, but now it has become reality:

 

http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html

 

Did you know that you are only allowed to view a DVD on a licensed player? So, technically, you can view it all day long as often as you want - but only after you have paid a small one-time fee for your license player.

 

....

 

This is happening already. Two semesters ago I had to buy a math textbook and it was a third cheaper to download strait from the publisher as a pdf. However, you can only have it installed to one machine. If your computer crashes, you have to buy a new copy.

 

It's a new business model to cut down on resales, which certainly doesn't benefit the publisher. Plus I'd imagine the government would back them up on this as resales don't factor into GDP, they don't stimulate the economy, and generally are despised by the business community.

Edited by Ombrenuit

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As for Limbo, it's absolutely hilarious that it has been in production for fifteen years :laugh: .

 

It seems like the girlfriends of the developers are a major factor, as they were the playtesters for the game. Maybe they got caught in a lie that they were truly their own materials--and it spun out of control? I think of all the stupid things men have done in recorded history, most of them were results of trying to impress women.

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The list of game graphics and sounds they've ripped off pretty much make a list of the top selling games over the past few years - how the hell did they think they'd get away with it?? I even recognise the exact places from Thief: Deadly Shadows!

 

The original game from the 1990's appears to have ripped off other games at the time as well!

http://img167.imageshack.us/my.php?image=l...hespyguyls1.png

 

The developer is quoted as saying that the plaigerised stuff came from contract artists.

http://au.gamespot.com/news/6192856.html?a...estnews;title;4

 

Uh huh... but the game credits only list one artist (one of the 3 guys who made this game).

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=O1cRUEjpQbI&NR=1

 

They're fucked.

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Speaking of ripping off assets, I watched this video yesterday and ... does anything sound familiar?

 

http://www.fun-motion.com/physics-games/hammerfall/

Edited by demagogue

What do you see when you turn out the light? I can't tell you but I know that it's mine.

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Some of the sound effects do sound familiar, but that's not unusual - a lot of SFX come from the same banks, quite legally. They're licenced out on a non-exclusive basis. Or did you mean something else which I've missed?

 

I was watching a TV program one day and someone was climbing up a ladder... I swear it was exactly the same sound effect as the Doom 3 ladder-climb. :D Same deal.

 

Hammerfall is an indie game BTW... it was in the Independent Games Festival, along with my own game Mayhem Intergalactic. The guy who posted that review you linked to is Matthew Wegner from Flashbang Studios, one of the IGF organisers.


My games | Public Service Announcement: TDM is not set in the Thief universe. The city in which it takes place is not the City from Thief. The player character is not called Garrett. Any person who contradicts these facts will be subjected to disapproving stares.

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They unmistakably use the spider sound fx from Thief.

 

Yeah, I was browsing around specifically looking for new indie games (Hammerfall I found on this good list: http://www.indiegames.com/blog/articles/ ) ... and I remember stumbling into your game in one of the lists too. It was just funny because I'm so far behind in playing newer indie games, but I played the demo for your game months ago.

Edited by demagogue

What do you see when you turn out the light? I can't tell you but I know that it's mine.

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Ahhh, yeah, that's what it is, you're quite right. I recognised it but couldn't place it.

 

As I said, I expect it's just licenced from the same source, but you could ask them where they got it from if you're really worried. :)


My games | Public Service Announcement: TDM is not set in the Thief universe. The city in which it takes place is not the City from Thief. The player character is not called Garrett. Any person who contradicts these facts will be subjected to disapproving stares.

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Some of the sound effects do sound familiar, but that's not unusual - a lot of SFX come from the same banks, quite legally. They're licenced out on a non-exclusive basis. Or did you mean something else which I've missed?

 

I was watching a TV program one day and someone was climbing up a ladder... I swear it was exactly the same sound effect as the Doom 3 ladder-climb. :D Same deal.

 

Hammerfall is an indie game BTW... it was in the Independent Games Festival, along with my own game Mayhem Intergalactic. The guy who posted that review you linked to is Matthew Wegner from Flashbang Studios, one of the IGF organisers.

 

One thing I always notice is the re-use of the sounds that were originally featured in Doom1 and Doom2 in movies. I ALWAYS recognize when movies use them and it's somewhat frustrating. The pistol and shotgun guys as well as the imp and the door sounds are always reused. It's weird to think that those sounds are over a decade old and people are still using them.

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Yeah I noticed that and posted about it on TTLG and said about the same thing. It's like violating sacred ground just for a cheap "scary" motif.

 

It gets worse. Watch a walkthrough (

), and you'll see they keep using it over and over (6:14, 6:55, 7:48, 8:06, 9:00...), any time they want to evoke a stock "scary" mood, like it was a cheap effect they swiped off of animatedgif.net to put in their game and on their Geocities "corporate homepage". Ugh.

 

I don't think they could have cheapened it any more. It doesn't even fit with anything; there's just empty hallways and suddenly this inexplicable "join us ... join us now" or the laughter. Yeah, just, ugh... ri6w3q.gif

Edited by demagogue

What do you see when you turn out the light? I can't tell you but I know that it's mine.

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This "game" is so obviously bad and cheap - what really intrigues me is what state of mind, or IQ level, a human being would have to be in to put all this time and effort into this thing and the entire time remain convinced that what they're making here is actually going to entertain someone. It's stupifying.

 

And there were 3 of these people all working on it!! Not one of them had a shred of sense...

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