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How feasible would it be to add a breathing/heartbeat loop that got louder as enemies approached? Especially if you had a weapon drawn out (blackjack especially... moreso still when its cocked back ready to KO and you're trying to close the gap). A rapid heartbeat/breathing could also be used if you use all of Doom 3's sprint energy... (Instead of the meter itself?) or as your energy ran out, it progressively got louder. And even after it ran out you could add a panting sound. Not too obnoxiously loud, just enough to make you aware.

 

Can you imagine sneaking up on a guard, and the closer you got, you could actually hear breathing and a heartbeat? Or after getting busted, and as you sprinted away, you could hear your character breathe, and his heart pound? Then after you finished running, his breathing was audible (and rapid?) until the sprint meter refilled! Wouldn't that be cool?

 

Maybe even include an option to adjust its volume separately, so you could tune it to your own experience. The main character maybe a pro, but there's always the adrenaline factor.

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How feasible would it be to add a breathing/heartbeat loop that got louder as enemies approached?

Feasible, but I'd personally hate that. I like to hear my own heart beating when playing fan missions, thank you very much. :)

 

Hearing an artifical heartbeat doesn't increase my adrenaline level, that's for sure.

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There actually was such a heartbeat sound originally, that started as you ran and got louder as you got tired or injured. However, it was universally disliked as annoying and distracting (I actually liked the idea at first but it quickly got annoying for me as well in practice).

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How feasible would it be to add a breathing/heartbeat loop that got louder as enemies approached? Especially if you had a weapon drawn out (blackjack especially... moreso still when its cocked back ready to KO and you're trying to close the gap). A rapid heartbeat/breathing could also be used if you use all of Doom 3's sprint energy... (Instead of the meter itself?) or as your energy ran out, it progressively got louder. And even after it ran out you could add a panting sound. Not too obnoxiously loud, just enough to make you aware.

 

Doom 3 already had a rapid heart beat thing. It was awful...we disabled it. :)

 

Then after you finished running, his breathing was audible (and rapid?) until the sprint meter refilled! Wouldn't that be cool?

 

This is similar to the heart beating in your ears in Doom 3, and for a 'thief type' game...it's just not cool. Why would we simulate the players stress/anxiety? If the map they're playing is done right...they should be experiencing it themselves. This is just another one of those things that 'removes' the player from being the character and makes it more like they're just along for the ride as some disconnected character leads them around the game. Some of the greatest Thief maps used to make me break a sweat, clutch the mouse, and get my heart racing when I was being chased. Hearing a disconnected hearbeat out of the speakers would just pull you out of an intimate game like Thief. Yes, it works in shooters where you're bombarded with visual/audio stimuli...but then you don't really have time to think in those games...and a thief styled game is all about thinking...not shooting.

 

I'm not sure whether you're suggesting this as a joke to test us or something, but no...we won't be enabling something like that. It's an inconsequential feature, and we're pretty much in feature freeze right now anyway.

 

In any case, our aim isn't to be cool...our aim is to make the best damned Thief 1/2 inspired toolset the community has ever seen.

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There actually was such a heartbeat sound originally, that started as you ran and got louder as you got tired or injured. However, it was universally disliked as annoying and distracting (I actually liked the idea at first but it quickly got annoying for me as well in practice).

 

Yes, I also think it might be interesting as one-time-feature (e.g. some great explosion triggers heartbeat sound), but really annoying as part of the gamaplay.

 

we're pretty much in feature freeze right now anyway.

What do you mean? :unsure:

Edited by Bukary

Cartographer's Note FM: in production.

Download Old Comrades, Old Debts FM or Mistrz Effects demo and see my old projects!

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What do you mean? :unsure:

 

He means that we are at the point where we stop adding features to the "to do" list, unless they pretty much blow everyone away. In other words, if someone suggests for example this heartbeat idea, then unless it really is the best idea anyone has ever heard, then we will add it on the future features list, but will not do it until after TDM v1.0, if at all.

 

A good example of this is player silhouettes, where guards would be able to notice your silhouette against a bright background. Too complex and too taxing to work on now, thus in the future features, where it may or may not be considered in the future.

 

The main reason we have a feature freeze is so that we can actually finish TDM, otherwise we would never get it done, because there'd always be some super-cool-idea that pops up and everyone wants etc.

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This sounds too much like the lockerroom parts of Metal gear solid.

 

I agree with springheel and newhorizon, those heartbeats get annoying.

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You guys mentioned you'll put a thief sixth sense (the thief says 'I sense loot' when loot is nearby) in the alpha.

 

Who mentioned this? I'm pretty sure no such feature is planned for the Dark Mod, given that such "hand-holding" features are universally loathed by the community.

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You guys mentioned you'll put a thief sixth sense (the thief says 'I sense loot' when loot is nearby) in the alpha. Will we be able to switch it off, for the sake of realism?:)

 

Nope, we never planned this and never will. It is WAAAY too inappropriate for a realistic feeling.

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I thought the loot sixth sense thing you guys were talking about was the loot that sparkles in the shadows like in TDS :-(

 

oooh! and than we can add climbing gloves and make the guards get winded after a few seconds of chasing you! Yeah! That will really enhance the mod! Talk about realism!

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and make the guards get winded after a few seconds of chasing you!

Erm... :blink: What's wrong with armored guards getting winded?

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Cartographer's Note FM: in production.

Download Old Comrades, Old Debts FM or Mistrz Effects demo and see my old projects!

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Erm... :blink: What's wrong with armored guards getting winded?

 

In TDS it made it far too easy to get away from the AI. We discussed including it, but decided against it...because if you make the guards winded...then you have to find a way to balance the gameplay so they don't become ridiculously easy to escape from....yet pretty much anything you do to counter balance it for the gameplay is essentially canceling out the 'winded' feature and making it pointless. Our approach with Dark Mod has always been to look long, and look hard at what made the original games so fun to play...and in most cases, it was an elegant simplicity. While we have attempted to improve upon the T1/2 AI...it's not in the same way TDS did, buy loading them up with 'features'. We are trying to improve upon what they already do well, and expand upon that logically, in ways that don't require 101 work arounds to balance properly....hence the AI's ability to use elevators now.

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In TDS it made it far too easy to get away from the AI.

 

Too true.

 

TDS is really easy compared to thief 1 and 2.

 

In TDS they got winded really quickly. Now I can understand them being winded, but it was too quick and easy. Plus if you were near bricks, you could just climb to a shady spot of the wall and wait for them to leave.

 

If you wanted to MGSify the game, you'd have an alarm system that makes more guards spawn and come to the area but that wouldn't really work in this type of game.

 

Okay enough mgs from me, these videos will explain

http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/297383

http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/426712

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In TDS it made it far too easy to get away from the AI. We discussed including it, but decided against it...because if you make the guards winded...then you have to find a way to balance the gameplay so they don't become ridiculously easy to escape from....yet pretty much anything you do to counter balance it for the gameplay is essentially canceling out the 'winded' feature and making it pointless.

 

They shouldn't stop chasing you, they should just slow down some.

 

If you got winded, and had to walk instead of run, that would be fair. Your "sprint meter" doesn't refill until you actually *stop* for a few seconds to catch your breath.

 

 

---food for thought below---

If you're looking at the realism aspect, neither you or they could run forever. The "sprint meter" is good, but why not have it for general endurance? You can only take so much extreme physical activity in a given amount of time.

 

Or when you're being chased, some way to award an adrenaline rush that comes with being caught, and having to run.

 

...Only if there were a way to track being surprised, so the amount of adrenaline rush given initially could be controlled.

 

Just a few ideas...

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Again, we discussed a lot of this stuff already and voted it down. What we wanted was a classic, simple, no nonsense gameplay system, no encumbrance systems, no endurance systems...just straight forward 'cops and robbers'.

 

These are all ideas that could be introduced by the community as add on's/modifications of the main branch. They would be offered as separate enhancements, but not by way making it into the main branch of TDM. The purpose of the main branch of TDM is to provide a gameplay experience as close to T1 and 2 as we can possibly make it....while still enhancing/improving it.

 

The more systems you introduce...the more you have to introduce ways to balance the gameplay. It's an endless cycle. You don't truly realize it until you start putting one of these suckers together.

 

That being said...I think we've mentioned that we're also in feature freeze now, so only 'crucial' systems would be considered at this point. Our feature list is essentially complete.

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The other main point with relation to the above idea is - What does it add to gameplay? How does it make the game more enjoyable to play?

 

I mean, if we were to play out a thief mission in RL similar to paintball then yeah adrenaline factors in etc, but in a game it would just seem silly to see the player controlled character get an "adrenaline rush" and somehow run faster etc. It just does not add anything positive and only adds limitations.

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That's right - if you get winded, and the guard gets winded - then it mostly negates - why bother?

 

In T2 with the ultimate difficulty activated, when I was playing it a while back - when I got seen, I paid for it. I ran and I ran and I ran... most times the map became unplayable with every guard chasing me, and I had to re-load, if I hadn't already been killed at a dead end. I deserved it. But if I never ran into anyone else, I managed to lose him through quick turns and darkness. VERY TENSE EXPERIENCE.

 

In TDS, you knew all you had to do was run around a pillar a few times and then you'd be off, safe and sound. It becomes a regular part of gameplay, and trivialises the experience of being chased.

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The other main point with relation to the above idea is - What does it add to gameplay? How does it make the game more enjoyable to play?

 

I mean, if we were to play out a thief mission in RL similar to paintball then yeah adrenaline factors in etc, but in a game it would just seem silly to see the player controlled character get an "adrenaline rush" and somehow run faster etc. It just does not add anything positive and only adds limitations.

 

I am pretty sure there is a "USB heart beat rate monitor" gadget out there :D Just kidding... :ph34r:

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

 

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

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That's right - if you get winded, and the guard gets winded - then it mostly negates - why bother?

 

In T2 with the ultimate difficulty activated, when I was playing it a while back - when I got seen, I paid for it. I ran and I ran and I ran... most times the map became unplayable with every guard chasing me, and I had to re-load, if I hadn't already been killed at a dead end. I deserved it. But if I never ran into anyone else, I managed to lose him through quick turns and darkness. VERY TENSE EXPERIENCE.

 

In TDS, you knew all you had to do was run around a pillar a few times and then you'd be off, safe and sound. It becomes a regular part of gameplay, and trivialises the experience of being chased.

So after the release someone could implement an adrenaline meter only for the player character as another feature of higher difficulty levels. It may not be realistic to have our would-be thief lose steam while the guards wearing chainmail can run without tire, but there is a point where realism can take a back seat to an increased challenge.

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