Should Dark Mod be more horror inspired?

[pataran]

Hey guys, I've been editing quite a lot recently and decided that I want my 2-3 part mission to be set with castles mixed with pagan influence. In thief the pagans were hugely influential to the atmosphere with their strange druidic mysteriousness and the way they always gave people the fear of the unknown. What I mean is as in levels such as "the maw" or "trail of blood". Do we have or are going to make pagan assets and models? You know, ape creatures, those little flying fairies, eyeball plants. Or the assortment of creepy creatures such as the trees that attack you, scaring the bejesus out of you? I really liked the weird and creepy aspects of Thief and would like to make a mission inspired by that. So far I am only using Lucia's assets so I'm not sure if we have this stuff yet. What are your thoughts and opinions on it? If you liked the feeling of the battle between nature(pagans) and man(builders/hammers), what parts did you like most? Do you guys think its essential to our thief inspired universe to include these things? I don't know, but to me I would really love to see a return of the monster portions of Thief along with those extremly creepy robots preaching the builder gospel from Thief 2. Nothing scarier in Thief 2 than hearing the those metalic clanks in the darkness, then all of a sudden hearing that charging terminator sound as your about to be annilated. Those wierd elements combined with the steampunk universe was what sucked me in. The weakest parts of TDS was when it just played only as a castle sneaker, what saved that game for me were the pagans and the "cradle". So lets focus alot on the horror aspects guys!

[Springheel]

Pagans in The Dark Mod setting:

 

Overview

 

The term "pagan" is a catch-all term used to describe anyone who doesn't follow the Builders' religion--in particular those who live outside the city. There are many different pagan tribes, each with their own traditions and appearance. They don't refer to themselves as "pagans", nor do they necessarily cooperate with each other. They should not be thought of as a single "faction".

 

Info

 

Pagans generally live in small tribes and villages surrounding the city. Some pagan tribes are fairly pleasant, trading peacefully with nearby villages, while others (those further from the city) are highly aggressive, warring with neighbouring tribes and raiding villages. Some tribes living deep in the wilds are said to be truly savage, wearing the skulls of animals and eating the flesh of men.

 

Pagans generally have a close relationship with nature and magical forces. They worship animal and nature spirits to varying degrees. Some simply venerate them; other tribes have members that can actually take on animal form. Most tribes have one or more shamans who are wise in the ways of natural magic--able to conduct powerful rituals to keep their tribes safe or bring ruin on their enemies.

 

The culture and customs of pagan tribes are a mixture of celtic, gallic and basque barbarian tribes. They are frequently covered by bizzarre tattoos, piercings, and wearing the furs and bones of animals.

 

Pagans Within the City

 

There are some pagans who have taken to living inside the walls of The City. They originally came from tribes close to the city to begin with, and wound up taking jobs inside the walls. Although they are forbidden to own land, some still move to the city looking for work or other opportunities.

 

Urban pagans live in their own district in the city, for the most part, renting from sympathetic or opportunistic landlords. Some pagans avoid the blatant prejudice by integrating into society--cutting their hair, going to mass, etc. There are many that do cling to the old traditions, however. Pagan beliefs generally involve magic and nature-worship, practices which make them feared and mistrusted by the rest of society. They live in fear of the Builders, who can usually arrest them for heresy without comment. When fires, disease or other problems arise in the city they are often the first to be blamed.

 

We do have a few "creatures" that might be ready for TDM 1.0, but it is not our focus--we want to make sure the core assets are working first, and then we can expand out to more peripheral stuff.

[BrokenArts]

The world of Thief has many different characters. Even though I am a fan of horror, why limit the possibilities? I'd get bored after awhile with nothing but horror FM's to play. Or TDM ALL HORROR!! ALL THE TIME!!

[DigitalNapalm]

I think the "all-horror" or "more horror" aspect is up to the campaign and map builders. I'm sure there's all kinds of possibilities for new AIs, if someone wants to put in the time to code it.

 

However...

I always thought that burning dead (essentially skeletons on fire, that could throw fireballs like a D3 Imp) could be an AWESOME element in any of the undead-heavy places that have existed. Especially used as a "shock and awe" element in a good map. They'd be a light source as well, adding an extra element of trickiness to putting them down.

[Ishtvan]

The original Doom3 had burning zombies, so it's definitely possible. I think you just create a submesh on the AI model and apply a material that emits flame particles.

[Tels]

The original Doom3 had burning zombies, so it's definitely possible. I think you just create a submesh on the AI model and apply a material that emits flame particles.

 

Or bind flame emitters to them. You can even do this dynamically

[Springheel]

I always thought that burning dead (essentially skeletons on fire, that could throw fireballs like a D3 Imp) could be an AWESOME element in any of the undead-heavy places

 

This nicely illustrates how "horror" is different for different people. I would personally find flaming skeletons throwing fireballs to be quite cheesy in a stealth game.

[Mr M]

This nicely illustrates how "horror" is different for different people. I would personally find flaming skeletons throwing fireballs to be quite cheesy in a stealth game.

 

 

Yea, for me the most horrific time was a fan mission ( wow it's been years!) where you were after another theif, who was trained as you, and you could at best barely able to see the guy. Being in a large darkened building with him, with him readily able to lay you out at any time gave me panic attacks. At times, I was too paranoid to even move. Excellent game ( I think maybe it was all black& white?) Ambience, music, timing of events, set up situations....that is what give the constant quiet horror....... everyone is diff

 

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[DigitalNapalm]

This nicely illustrates how "horror" is different for different people. I would personally find flaming skeletons throwing fireballs to be quite cheesy in a stealth game.

 

Thats a semantic... situational horror vs. startle horror.

 

But Springheel, picture this:

You're in an old dilapidated cathedral, and there's a long hallway with a door at each end. You're entering the hallway from one side for the first time... and halfway down the hallway walking toward you is a burning dead (scripted to start a patrol toward whichever door you open first). All you have are a blackjack and a sword. A bit scarier now? Personally, I'd probably pee my pants. But that's startle horror.

 

I've said it before on these forums and I'll say it again. My personal scariest gaming experience ever is summed up in two words.

"Shalebridge Cradle"

 

Anyone else agree? If you really want to implement something really SCARY in a TDM campaign, I'm shouting LOUD once again for the cage-heads.

[jdude]

A lot of the creatures you describe can be made in the editor with brushes with exception to the monkeys. The models and creatures wont make TDM scary but the map will so you cannot really just ask to make TDM scary.

[pataran]

A lot of the creatures you describe can be made in the editor with brushes with exception to the monkeys. The models and creatures wont make TDM scary but the map will so you cannot really just ask to make TDM scary.

 

Lol, I never asked to make TDM scary in that way, I was trying to ask if we were going to have the horror assets from Thief and what the opinions were on scariness in Thief. Maybe the glow sprites can be made in the editor but I don't think the mechanical gaurds can be. What was your favorite Thief moment?

[jdude]

I thought the zombies in level two of T1 were the scariest But this was when I was very little and I was so scared I'd get chills up my body when I'd see the spiders or the zombies!

[Crispy]

Dude. I couldn't get past that level for so long.

 

Good thing I never got the chance to play T3's Cradle mission until I was a lot older (because it wasn't released until then), or I would have been scarred for life.

[HappyCheeze]

The level when you have to go into the old city to get "The Eye", that took me a while to get through.

[BrokenArts]

The thing I wish more authors would do, is learn the art of subtlety. Its not strictly about shocking you endlessly, which gets old after awhile. You learn to expect that. I do at least, very rarely does anything freak me out anymore. We've all gotten desensitized to a degree in gaming, been there, done that scenario. There is one particular TTLG dromed author, DrK, he is a master at it. He is damn good at horror, and damn good at dromed.....period. He's studying to become an architect, so, his building structure and style is top notch. He was the reason I went back to playing FM's again, I dropped out of playing for a few years, one mission in particular, let me just say, it made both Leatherman and myself say, "Oh shit!" Slow build up of music, a surprise thrown in. Its the little things that make a good horror mission fun to play, and hard to make, and pull off successfully. I helped him beta test a few times now, I will every time he asks.

 

If anyone hasn't played his Night in Rocksborough series, I highly recommend it. You'll see what I mean. Its horror done right.

[jdude]

@ Happy Cheese!

OHHH I LOVED THAT MAP What was it called, the citadel, the cathedral or something like that? I know the one your speaking of it also scared me a lot! I'd really like to make something similar to it for TDM.

 

@Broken Arts:

I agree with you 100%. The failure of today's modern 'horror' games is that you know it's coming. I loved doom3 not because it was scary but because it was immersion. However I didn't find any of it scary at all because it's lame startle after another and another. Thief is one of the rare games where I felt like the second level was a long awaited un-expected scare for me likely because I had played through the demo which was the first level about 10 times and had no idea a scare was coming.

[sparhawk]

If you like horror in games, a really good one is "Scratches". It's and adventure I played last year, and the atmosphere was really awesome! I hate movies that rely on splatter effects, because in most cases they just look ridiculous. I always prefer the psychological horror, that starts to build up in your head.

 

EDIT: Corrected the name.

[jdude]

Care to post a link? I cannot find anything on this game.

[Baal]

I think its called "Scratches". I have never played it but thats probably what he meant.

[sparhawk]

Yeah. I meant Scratches and misspelled it.

 

If you like classic point and click adventures then this is definitely a really good game.

[Baal]

I haven't played that kind of game since the (good old) days of Monkey Island and the likes. Grim Fandango was the last if I remember correctly.

And I see there is a demo thats not several GBytes. When I have the time I should check it out.

[BrokenArts]

Not to get sidetracked here. What are some of your favorite horror games? I love Vampire Masquerade Bloodlines, awesome game. Great story and the best voice acting. Undying, a sleeper classic.

[Baal]

It's not totaly off topic if one of these games serves as inspiration for a horror themed map.

 

Some of my favourites in terms of atmosphere/horror:

Undying:

Many imaginative and diverse settings.

System Shock 2:

It makes BioShock look really bad.

Doom 3:

Yes I like that game.

Thief 1/2/3:

There are some really spooky missions for these games.

 

Right now I can't think of any other games that really scared me. Bloodlines was great in small doses. It had some annoying aspects but it's one of the better games.

[Mortem Desino]

Well, I did like Clive Barker's Undying, but there are two games that scared me more.

 

1st, and favorite, Penumbra Overture. No other game has given me such panic attacks and high heart rates. It uses a very different, but totally natural, world interaction system in which:

• When your "hand" grasps a restrained physics object (I.E. a door on hinges) an invisible 2-d plane is drawn
  
• Your mouse (interacting hand) is restricted to this plane. In the case of a door, the plane is drawn relative to points in which the door can be opened or closed.
  
• So you grasp the door, and you move the mouse in a curved trajectory in the same direction that the door will open or close.
  

If that explanation was confusing, play the demo. I was sucked into it just by the sheer atmosphere, immersive controls, and plot.

 

2nd, is Call of Cthulhu: Dark Corners of the Earth. This included more chase-scenes and signs of psychological breakdown (Hallucinations, flashbacks, flashforwards, paranoia, Schizophrenia).

 

Better yet was the health system. If you've ever donated a pint of blood, you know what happens to your eyesight, hearing, and muscle control. Their health system was extremely close to simulating blood loss. If you couple the health system with the visual and audio effects of vertigo, being frightened, a high heart rate, heavy breathing, and drug use, This all creates an eerily realistic simulation of the Human Body.

Edited December 6, 2008 by Mortem Desino

[BrokenArts]

Bloodlines was great in small doses. It had some annoying aspects but it's one of the better games.

 

 

What exactly do you mean? Just curious. I found many people that absolutely love the game. Melee combat can be daunting at times, overall the game rocked. Get the proper patches for it, dynamite game.