Standalone Installer

[greebo]

I agree with New Horizon that a rudimentary level of politeness is not too much to be asked for.

[Springheel]

Agreed. I would have been a lot more sarcastic if I'd gotten to it first.

[SneaksieDave]

The response DEFINITELY needed more RANDOMLY placed CAPS.

[Crispy]

Just because he's not being polite, doesn't mean we get to be rude. I don't disagree with NH's post; indeed, I was a bit annoyed myself. I tend to take the view, however, that it's better to be impeccably civil in the face of all provocation; doing so resets the tone of the conversation, results in a more productive outcome all round, earns respect, and leaves everyone happier than the alternative.

 

(Unless I get really pissed off. )

[Noisycricket]

There was a screenshot i wanted to take of a typical day's "view new posts" which showed something like 30 posts from some of the 20 or so different dev-only forums and subforums to show people that this is a fairly major undertaking for the people involved...

[Mortem Desino]

There was a screenshot i wanted to take of a typical day's "view new posts" which showed something like 30 posts from some of the 20 or so different dev-only forums and subforums to show people that this is a fairly major undertaking for the people involved...

Unfortunately, even the titles would show a plethora of spoilers. And we don't want that, now, do we? Even better than forums: the darkmod bugtracker. A massive tire fire is what that is...

 

No sense in alienating robert. Why don't you create your own thread outlining your problem? Every detail helps us help you help us all.

[Crispy]

Bit off topic, but here's a fun calculation I just did: The average number of posts per day on this forum, for the 5 years(!) it has existed, is just over 104.

[DeathStage_12]

I don't think you have any idea how much work goes into getting something to work on "ONE" operating system

 

...well I do, gosh darnit and I'm impressed as hell! I love Dark Radiant. It is so much easier to work with than DromEd. I'm more impressed with the fact that this team has stayed focused on this project long enough to see it through. Kudos to you all. NH, you're a rock star, don't let some punk arse get your hackles up.

 

I do have one complaint, though. I can't even get this stupid Mod to load on my Commodore 64. Jeez, how hard can it be? What do you guys do all day?

-DS:12

[Tels]

...well I do, gosh darnit and I'm impressed as hell! I love Dark Radiant. It is so much easier to work with than DromEd. I'm more impressed with the fact that this team has stayed focused on this project long enough to see it through. Kudos to you all. NH, you're a rock star, don't let some punk arse get your hackles up.

 

I do have one complaint, though. I can't even get this stupid Mod to load on my Commodore 64. Jeez, how hard can it be? What do you guys do all day?

-DS:12

 

Sorry, it only runs on a Commodore 128. The 64 has simply not enough memory for the 3 textures we made. (All of them 32x32 pixel at 8 colors, of corurse!)

[Albert]

_

Edited March 31, 2020 by Albert

[Crispy]

Well, I read it. I just didn't have much to add. (Also, the conversation had ended a week before you made your post. Just saying. )

 

It's true, if someone creates viable replacements for all the Doom 3 assets then that might help in any effort to create a standalone TDM. There would still be a lot of work to do though. e.g. Someone would still need to do the work to integrate everything, and some of the shipping TDM assets are based on modified D3 assets so they would also need replacing.

[Albert]

_

Edited March 31, 2020 by Albert

[Crispy]

No pinky demons, no, but plenty of more subtle things.

 

You would need to do at least the following:

 

1. Obtain an unencumbered open-source version of the Doom 3 code. (Expected late 2010, or sometime in 2011, or maybe later. Depends on Rage's release date, and on Zenimax's approval of the open-source release.)

2. Merge TDM's code changes (of which there are TONS) into the open sourced Doom 3 codebase.

3. Test it thoroughly to make sure it works, and make any code changes required.

 

You would then have standalone code for TDM, but it still depends on D3-derived assets, so that's not very useful until you also:

 

4. Do a sweep through all of TDM's assets to check for ones based on Doom 3 or requiring Doom 3 assets. Off the top of my head, this includes at least: zombies, some textures and material definitions, some sound effects, probably a lot of things that I've omitted.

5. Delete all those assets.

6. Package the standalone code version of TDM with the remaining assets.

 

You would then have a "TDM Lite" which is freely distributable, but is missing a lot of assets and is basically unusable. It may not even run, since some of the missing assets could be required regardless of map.

 

7. Make drop-in, non-copyright-infringing, replacements for all the missing assets. This is a huge job.

8. Update all released FMs to use the replacement assets, and make any other changes that might be required for compatibility.

 

After all that, you would finally have a standalone TDM.

 

Did I miss anything, guys?

[demagogue]

You've mentioned what would need to be done on the Dark Mod end.

 

But trying to think about how the idea might actually work in practice, you could knock out steps 7 and 8 (still a lot of work with 1-6, but at least then in the realm of reasonable possiblity) and then it would be the responsibility of the mapper to avoid or fill in just the gaps they need to make their own FM run on it. Then the Lite version could work as a kind branch-version with its own FMs (that hopefully should also work with the main-version if the mapper is smart about it; so TDM-Lite FMs also work on TDM, but not vice versa).

 

So there wouldn't be as many FMs for it, a sub-set, but they could be freely distributed to the world through an open TDM-Lite, so the mappers brave enough to go to the effort get the bonus. That's how I imagined it might go down. It all really comes down to who has the ability and initiative to do 1-6 when the time comes, though.

[Crispy]

Yes, in practice steps 7-8 probably be performed to get one FM working at a time, and you'd have individual FMs being gradually declared "Standalone TDM compatible" if/when they were ported. Just wanted to demonstrate that it's not nearly as simple as "1. Get open source Doom III. 2. Profit!"

 

I'm sure steps 1-3 will happen relatively quickly (maybe a month or two?) if/when D3 does become open source, simply because we have other reasons for wanting full engine code access, but steps 4-5 need to be done very slowly and carefully and as a massive group effort, and then you need to port all the FMs that get released between now and 2011 or whenever. Slow process, and most people who care about TDM will have Doom 3 already then anyway, so it's not clear how much motivation there would be.

[free_cogg]

I tend to take the view, however, that it's better to be impeccably civil in the face of all provocation; doing so resets the tone of the conversation, results in a more productive outcome all round, earns respect, and leaves everyone happier than the alternative.

 

You, Crispy, are a very wise man/woman/entity.

[Crispy]

Why thank you!

 

(Man, as it happens. )