My first map (and some questions)

[RailGun]

First of all i would like to congratulate the team for all their work. As soon as i finished saint lucia i was so excited about the potential of this project that i decided to give the editor a try

Here are some pics of my work, its only interiors since i have still much to learn

 

 

Now to the questions, I am having problems with the readables, i can't seem to make them work on my mission, i tried repacking the mission in pk4 files but it doesnt seem to work. Any ideas?

[HappyCheeze]

Those look really nice!

 

What really stands out to me is the space you fill in the rooms.

[Mortem Desino]

Readables can sometimes be a real pain, can't they?

Let me give you an example xd file.

 

mymap/readables/scroll1  //Your readable's xdata_contents spawnarg value. In this case, it would read
                        //xdata_contents = mymap/readables/scroll1 in the editor
{
   precache     //loaded into memory ahead of time, so there's no lag pause when you frob it.
"num_pages"   : "1" //How many pages do you want in this readable?

"page1_title" :
{
"" 
}
"page1_body" :
{
" This is the first line in the body. "
""
" Here's another line, because its on another set of quotes. If I want, I can type \n to force another line."
""
" -MD"
}

"page2_title" : //since my num_pages above is set to 1, these can stay empty.
{
"" 
}
"page2_body" :
{
""
}
"page3_left_title" :
{
"" 
}
"page3_left_body" :
{
""
}

"page3_right_title" : 
{
"" 
}
"page3_right_body" :
{
""
}

"page4_left_title" :
{
"" 
}
"page4_left_body" :
{
""
}

"page4_right_title" : 
{
"" 
}
"page4_right_body" :
{
""
}

"page5_left_title" : 
{
"" 
}
"page5_left_body" :
{
""
}

"page5_right_title" : 
{
"" 
}
"page5_right_body" :
{
""
}


"gui_page1"   : "guis/readables/sheets/sheet_paper_hand_nancy.gui" //What kind of background and font
"gui_page2"   : "guis/readables/sheets/sheet_paper_hand_nancy.gui" 
"gui_page3"   : "guis/readables/sheets/sheet_paper_hand_nancy.gui" 
"gui_page4"   : "guis/readables/sheets/sheet_paper_hand_nancy.gui" 
"gui_page5"   : "guis/readables/sheets/sheet_paper_hand_nancy.gui" 

//No need to delete pages if there's less than the default 5.
//Copy lines and renumber them if you want more than 5.

"snd_page_turn" : "readable_page_turn" //this is the default page turn sound.
}

You can even copy-paste than into a .xd file, edit that to whatever you want, and copy and paste it again for every other readable you've got.

 

Before I forget, WOAH! That's great use of space (nothing looks like useless 'filler'). I really like the lighting in that fourth picture. Other than some little texture alignment issues, it's quite nice. You can Ctrl-Shift-LMB on some faces to select them, and then press 'S' to open up the 'surface inspector' tool and tweak what's selected.

[Jesps]

It has already been said, but: wow, those shots look cool.

 

There is an article on readables on the wiki: http://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php/Readables

[RailGun]

Thanks a lot for the replies, i am planning to expand the mission to include some city streets before you get to the manor.

But before that i still cant make the readables work, is there any specific command besides dmap to load xdata? (i alredy made a xdata folder with everything)

[Fidcal]

RailGun: First, Only a quick look at the pictures and they look great quality. I'll drool over them a bit more later.

 

Meanwhile, readables: They are difficult because so many things to go wrong. For a list of common problems see: http://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php/...Troubleshooting

 

There is no special command to load xdata in the first case (ie, when you first launch your map.) but there is a special trick to get them to reload if you are testing over and over while changing them. See: http://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php/...Reloading_xdata

 

Post again if still not working. We'll need more details, eg, a specific example.

[Fidcal]

I just took a longer look at your screenshots full screen. Apart from a few trivial fixable texture alignments they have great lighting and atmosphere and show real creative talent.

[RailGun]

I'm still struggling with the readables,can anyone figure out whats wrong with this readable (when i load the mission i have a non existant xdata declaration problem)

 

Note_01
{
precache 
"num_pages" : "1" 

"page1_title" :
{
""
}
"page1_body" :
{
"Marcus."
""
"I'm telling you for the last time, fix that damn door before we have yet another problem."
}

"page2_title" : 
{
""
}
"page2_body" :
{
""
}
"page3_left_title" :
{
""
}
"page3_left_body" :
{
""
}

"page3_right_title" :
{
""
}
"page3_right_body" :
{
""
}

"page4_left_title" :
{
""
}
"page4_left_body" :
{
""
}

"page4_right_title" :
{
""
}
"page4_right_body" :
{
""
}

"page5_left_title" :
{
""
}
"page5_left_body" :
{
""
}

"page5_right_title" :
{
""
}
"page5_right_body" :
{
""
}


"gui_page1" : "guis/readables/sheets/sheet_paper_hand_nancy.gui" 
"gui_page2" : "guis/readables/sheets/sheet_paper_hand_nancy.gui"
"gui_page3" : "guis/readables/sheets/sheet_paper_hand_nancy.gui"
"gui_page4" : "guis/readables/sheets/sheet_paper_hand_nancy.gui"
"gui_page5" : "guis/readables/sheets/sheet_paper_hand_nancy.gui"


"snd_page_turn" : "readable_page_turn" 
}

I'll appreciate any help

[Mortem Desino]

For testing purposes, you can put the .xd file right in your xdata directory of the mod for easy access and editing.

 

Also, when you declare your readable (in this case, the line that says "Note_01") I'd put some unique prefixes in front of it (e.g. readables/mymap/note_01) to prevent conflicts with other xdata files.

 

Don't forget to change the xdata_contents spawnarg to exactly how you put it in the .xd. If it's declared in the xd as mortem/smells/real/funny then xdata_contents should also read mortem/smells/real/funny

[Fidcal]

Some possibilities:

1. The xdata name against the xdata_contents property on the readable entity in the map does not agree with that in the xd file (eg, typo or wrong name either in the xd file or in the entity property.) Also, if you copied and pasted did you accidentally include a linefeed? Another possibility might be if an xdata declaration above the is one has a fault (eg missing } ) then it might prevent this one being read.
   
2. The xd file isn't loaded. Reload Doom/TDM or alternatively you can type in the console:
   
   • GameError
     
   • ReloadDecls
     
   • Map <mapname>
     

 

[EDIT] In which folder have you put your .xd file?

[RailGun]

[EDIT] In which folder have you put your .xd file?

 

in Doom 3\saintlucia\maps\mymap\xdata

[Fidcal]

OK, you need to create a new folder: Doom 3\saintlucia\xdata and move your xd file there.

[RailGun]

It worked! thanks a lot fidcal

[RailGun]

I have been trying (very slowly) to build a very small city around my map, i'll post some preliminary shots and see if you guys can help make it better

 

this is a city watch station

 

any criticism?

[Springheel]

My suggestion is to look at a lot of reference material. I keep an entire library of medieval building images to use when I map.

 

A few specific crits: Make sure the textures are aligned properly. A lot of the wood beams in your buildings have the grain running perpendicular to the board.

 

You might want to play with the verts of your brushes in some cases so that the edges aren't so sharp. The 'sidewalk', for example, could slant down to the road so it isn't so obvious it's a sharp corner.

 

Definitely look into the use of dirt decals for the walls. They make a tremendous difference.

 

Also, give some thought to the building materials. It's not very likely that there would be a stone block ceiling--what would keep it from collapsing? Also, the stone blocks in the floor look gigantic. You also have a number of upper floors that jut out without any visible signs of support.

[Mortem Desino]

Architecturally, I really like the outsides of buildings. I just hope that some of the wooden trim of those buildings is func_static with "noshadows" "1". Casting too many shadows sucks up FPS.

 

I'll just complain some more about texture alignment in pictures 1-3. Just be sure of taken-for-granted things like the grain of the wood follows the length of the board.

 

Also, on those last two pictures, I'd also object to brick or stone ceilings. Brick and mortar doesn't have much tensile strength.

 

Lastly, on any and all brick and stonework, how the brick sticks out of the ground can make the difference between unnatural-eye-catching and totally-natural-barely-even-notice-it.

 

Currently: It appears like bricks and stones half stick out of the ground:

~~~~~~~~~~~~

You usually have two ways to fix it. The obvious one is texture alignment, but sometimes it can look strange with the alignment of other nearby textures:

~~~~~~~~~~~~

If you can't get texture alignment to work well for you, you can add some trim to the bottom edge:

[Fidcal]

Overall very promising! Rather neat at the moment but later you can break down, wear down, a few edges, add dirt decals and junk etc.

 

A few details to add to what has been said:

 

Screen 1: Open windows make thinner. Also roof and roof side texture alignment. Add more support under that jutting out wood balcony.

 

Screen 2: Neat sidewalks seem too modern to fit this environment. Consider dirt cart roads with varied wooden sidewalks and embedded mixed paving here and there like in Saint Lucia.

 

Screen 3: Another super-thick roof needs thinning. Maybe there is some structure there under the tiles but it doesn't look right to me.

 

Screen 4: ditto

 

Screen 5: Archways - it is a common error to just cut out an arch in stonework leaving slithers of stone unsupported. Look at roman arches to see how support is given with a fan of bricks/stones locked together.

 

Screen 6: As SH said, unsupported ceiling and overlarge stone block floor. But I like those stone blocks. Never thought of using them on a floor before. But just scale down a little or actually maybe one can see them as shallow slabs like paving stones. I wonder if you scale down the long direction so they are more square what that might look like?

 

Those ceilings - what's above them? Looking at old ruins, usually they are just outer walls 2, 3, floors high but mostly open to the sky inside because presumably the inner floors were wood and rotted away. The only way to get stone ceilings apart from vaulted ceilings would be stone pillars below and step them out at the top and step the stones upward between. Might work.

 

Don't get too carried away with size. We see this over and over. Possibly the single most common mistake for beginners is to build and build without realizing all the other work needed later. There are lots of abandoned large maps in which scores of hours have been invested with no finished mission at the end of it. The main terrain of Saint Lucia was probably built in a couple of months as I recall. It took the rest of the year to finish it - and that was with several of us with experienced help. With practice, missions can be built more quickly but to begin with it is best to have modest aims and resolve to finish. When you have learned to manage creating a complete mission then you can better assess the work needed to do something bigger. I don't want to discourage you from this project though. Good luck with it but be aware of the time needed.

[OrbWeaver]

To add to what others have mentioned about texturing -- make sure that the pavement/sidewalk has a kerb/curb at the edge of it. At the moment you've got paving slabs going all the way to the edge, and also on the vertical surface which doesn't look realistic.

[Arcturus]

It's not very likely that there would be a stone block ceiling--what would keep it from collapsing?

 

Ironically Saint Lucia had them too.

[OrbWeaver]

Ironically Saint Lucia had them too.

 

I don't think anybody was suggesting that SL was flawless. Railgun specifically asked for constructive feedback on his map, and has received it; it's not a competition.

[Arcturus]

I don't think anybody was suggesting that SL was flawless. Railgun specifically asked for constructive feedback on his map, and has received it; it's not a competition.

 

I only wonder why nobody noticed that when SL was being made.

[Tels]

I only wonder why nobody noticed that when SL was being made.

 

I think we just run out of time to fix everything

[Melan]

One suggestion I would make - not specific to The Dark Mod - would be to build less regular spaces. The charm of old cities often lies in their irregularities: buildings that have odd little outcroppings, a few secluded stairs with a wall niche, a house that has been partially rebuilt... Sloping terrain or other height differences also add to the experience. Look at how Assassins handled the city - not necessarily technically, but in feel, ambience and the variability of terrain.

 

Otherwise, looks nice... although in your first post, there is a screen where the whole building should logically be on fire.

Edited April 1, 2009 by Melan

[Springheel]

I only wonder why nobody noticed that when SL was being made.

 

It was mentioned, and I think even fixed for the corridor between the two maps. But we were trying to meet a deadline there and not everything could be addressed.

 

The charm of old cities often lies in their irregularities....Sloping terrain or other height differences also add to the experience.

 

Absolutely agree.

 

Here's a couple city shots from my WIP map:

 

 

[RailGun]

well, that was a lot more help that i expected, thanks everyone for taking your time.

After i posted at this thread i decided that i didnt like what i was doing and start over (i kept the police station for now) and started to map the city differently somewhat like melan said, irregular buildings.It's too early to see if its an improvement or not but i'll post a pic when i have something done

Oh and Springheel those shots look REALLY good