Newbie DarkRadiant Questions

[Snakebite]

I read the wiki for double doors but I don't get it. Do I really need to create a visportal? I know sooner or later I must add visportals but I was hoping for later. Any other way to do it?

[TinyThief]

Hey guys,

I've been having a go at creating a model for my map but I'm stuck and I have no idea what's wrong. I've searched the forums and read (and re-read) the wiki about creating and importing models but I was unable to find anything related to what I'm running into.

I created some stairs in 3dsmax along with a collision and shadow model, made a quick UVW texture and imported it all in DR. So far so good.. the problem is, however, that in game the texture looks somehow washed out, much brighter than it appears in the editor. Though the bigger issue is that in game the geometry seems messed up - But it looks fine in DR. You can see torches shining right through the model and you can even see faces of the model you shouldn't be able to see. I've spent almost 2 days trying to figure out what the problem is and I have no idea what I'm doing wrong. It would be nice if someone with more experience could point me in the right direction.

 

[Rek]

Hi, I have the climbable ivy in my map so I created a brush over the ivy and apply the Ladder texture. But when I'm climbing on the ivy there is the sound of climbing on the ladder which really doesn't suit it. So I want to ask you guys. Is it possible to get rid of that sound somehow?

Edited June 8, 2010 by Rek

[stumpy]

double doors wont open together it there's no visportal, they open independantly without a visportal, room must also be visportal sealed for them to work.

[rich_is_bored]

@'TinyThief':

 

The surface normals look like they might be inverted. But I don't have 3DSMAX and it's hard to say for certain what's wrong without being able to examine the model.

[KaiserJohan]

Hello,

 

Got a quickie question. I've been trying to use stim & response. I've looked at the stim on the wiki but it dosn't explain much

 

Basically, I have a lever. (atdm_switch_flip_1). When I frob it, I want an AI (a revenant in this case) to get knocked out.

 

So I selected the lever i put out, open the S&R menu, and add "frob" as stim, then I go to Response and add "KO". In the response effect, I add "Knockout" effect and select the revenant from the entity list. It feels like a pretty logical setup.

 

But it dosn't work....

[aidakeeley]

Maybe you can't KO revenants? Only re-deadify them?

[Fidcal]

Rek: The only fix I can see at the moment for the ladder sound is this: Create a plain text file called say mymap.sndshd and put it in a folder in darkmod\sound or your game folder. It must be included with your FM. In the file put in:

 

movement_ladder

{

}

 

I don't know if the above will work but in theory it will replace the normal sound with silence. If so, it means if you have any normal ladders in your FM they will be silent too. You could also try an actual sound if you want to explore the darkmod pk4s, eg,

 

movement_ladder

{

foliage_shuffle

}

 

Please let me know if it works.

 

I'll look into this to see if there is a better solution for some future update but I suspect it might need a code change.

[KaiserJohan]

I've tried to change it to "kill" instead of "ko" but nothing still happens.

 

Same thing when I frob a lever that is setup similarly to an oil lamp. (it's supposed to light it)

[Fidcal]

KaiserJohan: Instead of a FROB response on the lever, put a TRIGGER response with the KO you want as the effect on some other nearby func_static, a bucket, anything handy. Now target that func_static from the lever.

[KaiserJohan]

KaiserJohan: Instead of a FROB response on the lever, put a TRIGGER response with the KO you want as the effect on some other nearby func_static, a bucket, anything handy. Now target that func_static from the lever.

 

I'm not sure I understand; from what I have gathered, the "stim" is a condition which trigger the "response". For example if I Frob a lever, the associated response will happen?

if (activate lever) {

KO(revenant)

}

 

 

 

*So, the stim type will be TRIGGER instead of FROB?

*Why would I want to KO a bucket? I'm not I understand

[Fidcal]

The lever (a normal lever with no extra s & r already does this) sends a TRIGGER stim to the bucket.

The bucket has a TRIGGER response to that stim.

The response effect you define to KO whatever you want. It's what you put in the response effect on the bucket that gets KO'd not the bucket.

[PranQster]

The lever (a normal lever with no extra s & r already does this) sends a TRIGGER stim to the bucket.

The bucket has a TRIGGER response to that stim.

The response effect you define to KO whatever you want. It's what you put in the response effect on the bucket that gets KO'd not the bucket.

 

I know this isn't my question, but I'm interested too. So if I understand this.

The handle targets the bucket, the bucket has a trigger response which is in turn assigned to the AI in question. So, theoretically, pull the handle and the bucket KOs the AI... (like, for instance... the bucket drops on the AI's head and knocks the AI out when the handle is pulled)?

[Rek]

Rek: The only fix I can see at the moment for the ladder sound is this: Create a plain text file called say mymap.sndshd and put it in a folder in darkmod\sound or your game folder. It must be included with your FM. In the file put in:

 

movement_ladder

{

}

 

I don't know if the above will work but in theory it will replace the normal sound with silence. If so, it means if you have any normal ladders in your FM they will be silent too. You could also try an actual sound if you want to explore the darkmod pk4s, eg,

 

movement_ladder

{

foliage_shuffle

}

 

Please let me know if it works.

 

I'll look into this to see if there is a better solution for some future update but I suspect it might need a code change.

I dont have the folder "sound" in my darkmod folder. So I placed the text file into the folder with my FM but it didn't work.

 

 

 

[Serpentine]

You could have a look in how it was done in the Training Mission, just extrac the FM and have a look around... and if you cant I'll have a look.

 

Actually, I think the training mission method was bad last I looked, if its messy let me know so that I can take a look at fixing that for some release in the future.

[Snakebite]

I am working on a balcony double-door which is made of glass (transparent). I am having trouble adding the visportal that opens both of them simultaneously. I put it in contact with the doors and when I check it with r_showPortals 1 it doesn't show there. I read the wiki and says I should not put a visportal in contact with a transparent/see through door, but rather away. This will make the doors not open together (they won't open anyway). Is not important to make them open like this, but will look better . What should I do?

[aidakeeley]

Boy, I gotta say I'm not understanding the logic underlying these last 2 situations...

 

i.e...

 

Why is a VP needed to have a double door act as a double door?

 

This confusion or down-right-strange workaround about the level triggers a bucket which in turn triggers KO middlemanthingy?

 

...

 

Will be interested in seeing the resolutions and/or explanations.

[Fidcal]

In the trainer there are some foliage sounds added but the ladder sound is still there I think.

 

I've added this to bugtracker for future fixing. http://bugs.angua.at/view.php?id=2256

[Fidcal]

There is some confusion over stim and responses. The example I gave is nothing whatsoever to do with a bucket! Let me explain:

 

A stim need to be on an entity; any entity.

A response needs to be on an entity (any.)

The response is caused by the stim, mostly by proximity but not always.

The response provides an effect (or several)

 

So to set up an S & R situation the mapper need a stim and a response each on its own entity.

 

There are many kinds of stim.

One of them is called a TRIGGER stim.

Every stim has its response so there is a TRIGGER response.

 

The mapper could set up one entity with a TRIGGER stim.

And another with a TRIGGER response.

A TRIGGER response is not actioned by proximity but by being targetted by the stim entity.

A lever entity already has this TRIGGER stim so does not need the mapper to add it.

The mapper only needs to set up the TRIGGER response on another entity.

That entity can be anything that is not being used for something else.

You can create a small nodraw brush and make it a func_static and use that for the response.

But it is simpler and quicker to use any of the hundreds of func_statics that are already in the map: a table, a chair, a bucket, a piece of trim on the wall. (this also helps reduce the number of entities in the map because there is a limit.) It's just anything to hold the response and in this case is nothing whatsoever to do with the action. It could even be on the other side of the city.

 

So to the above entity, one adds a TRIGGER response.

When you add any response you then define what its effect(s) will be.

In this case you define only a single effect - to KO the zombie.

 

To get the lever's TRIGGER stim to stim the response on the above entity you use the keyword target and name the entity.

 

Now, when the player frobs the lever:

The lever stims the response entity.

The response entity causes the defined effect.

The zombie falls unconcious.

The zombie can be anywhere.

The lever can be anywhere.

The response entity can be anywhere.

Because with a TRIGGER stim no proximity is needed. It is a very powerful and useful stim because it can be used to trigger any of the many s & r effects such as changing an AI's team.

 

Note that most other stims work by proximity and the stim entity and the response need to come within a defined range of each other.

[Fidcal]

Double doors: I believe that to set up a double door you only need to add to each the spawnargs open_peer and lock_peer naming the other door in each case. Since almost all double doors will have a visportal, the code is set up to do this automatically (ie, zero extra work for the mapper.) Because it is very easy to drag out a brush and click the make visportal button and you almost always have to do it anyway I see only one reason not to use this method.

 

The one exception I can think of is with a see-through door such as a barred gate, a glass door, a cell door, a door with an opening of any kind, a rotten door with holes. The reason is that if a visportal's surface is in contact with a door then the visportal closes when the door is closed so will show as black in any part of the door that is see-through. In those cases you should move the visportal an inch or two away from the door. It will still function like any other visportal but it will not close when the door closes.

 

[EDIT] By coincidence I see the above answers snakebite's dilemma.

[aidakeeley]

Thanks for those explanations, Fidcal. I still don't "get" the why of the S&R setup, BUT I am sure there is a reason that the system is not one-to-one will be perfectly understandable once I get my head around the whole system... probably something to do with each entity not having an endless array of TRIGGERS to hold...

 

Note that most other stims work by proximity and the stim entity and the response need to come within a defined range of each other.

 

And I imagine this is to facilitate the usefulness of objects upon the nearest (single or set of) object(s) meant to be affected. Such as, say, a flashbomb not blinding everyone in the whole map, just those close enough... a "spell" kind of thing? Or say a torch (any torch) being doused or lit because it has a built-in (proximity-dependent) response?

 

Anyway, I think I might be able to try out a S&R system with what you've outlined above, so, again, thanks for taking the time.

 

...

 

As for the double door thing... still seems confusing, and you say yourself there is a dilemma... Maybe a case of trying to make something user-friendly and in the end causing more difficulty...

 

(over-engineering? not an alien concept these days ; and, though I find plenty of opportunity to bitch about it, I can also see where it is not always just some Microsoft (or Adobe, Sage, Oracle...) busybody trying to justify his existence)<-----Having said that*...

 

I could be completely wrong about my concept of what goes on here, of course.

 

But, while we're at it and although this may not be your area, Fidcal, I wanted to ask about VPs and the creation of them; I see there is a "shortcut" in DR to do this. I'm (once again) supposing this is to facilitate a bit of time saving (like the big time saver that cuts a room out of a block?).

 

My question is: is the face (surface) that is VPed a random choice of one of the two largest area surfaces on whatever this function is applied to?

 

Since VPs are so import as a concept, and in practice, understanding what they do and where to place them is frustrating if the creation of them is confusing as well. I mean it really is just as easy as:

 

1. Dragging out a brush in to a "wall" that extends into the surrounding worldspawn so that it "seals" it.
2. Texturing the whole wall with NoDraw (and no collisioning it too? I didn't seem to have to do that in my experiments yesterday)
3. Then texturing one of the major surfaces with VP

*Larry David voice

Edited June 11, 2010 by aidakeeley

[Fidcal]

Yes, that's about it. The brush is just something to carry that one visportal surface which is the active part and should span a worldspawn gap to seal it. I don't normally worry about which way it is facing.

[aidakeeley]

Excellent. So, even though I feel better knowing what the steps are, the "make visportal" thing is quite useful. I feel like I was a bit rude declaring that some of the DR stuff might be "over-engineered" -- not meant to be.

 

The only reason I ask about the random side thing (and wanting to know what the actual "formula" for making a VP is) is that there seems to be some haziness on the idea of "not quite touching the doors" (as above, and I believe I've seen recommendations similar to this elsewhere for other purposes lately... can't recall exactly where and what but it was in reference to VP placement as well)...

 

Anyway... the reason I was concerned with the random choice of which side would be dubbed the VP, is that I wonder if the brush-now-VP's "VP surface" is say not exactly touching...

 

 

Does that make the/any difference in this regard?

 

I think you just said this very thing, but I was hoping to get this to be perfectly clear for whoever might come across this (maybe) important and critical point.

Edited June 11, 2010 by aidakeeley

[Serpentine]

 

Does that make the/any difference in this regard?

 

It does, but considering all you need to fix that is simply click 'mirror' and you're all good

 

Another thing, the face that will be made into the VP surface is the longest side of the polygon (or maybe face area, but my mental image makes more sense seeing it in 2d), which makes triangular VP brushes easy to make when doing corners. However in this case it will always be one of the 'door' surfaces, which makes it nice and simple to fix using mirror or rotate... the more you know!

[aidakeeley]

triangular VP brushes

 

Thanks for the answer, but now you just blew my mind again... why would you ever want to create a triangular VP brush?

 

 

The more you know indeed!