Noisycricket contributions

[Noisycricket]

Whats the beginning pay rate btw?

[greebo]

I'll move this post to the Animations forum, if you don't mind, this way you'll get more attention I think.

 

Generally, we need the source files of any completed animation you contribute, so please check in your files in the model_src repository. Not only you can effectively share your work, it also serves as backup in case of a machine failure.

 

Whats the beginning pay rate btw?

 

In any case, your name will show up in the credits. If you're here to stay, you'll get mentioned on the website as part of the Animation team. Oh, and did I mention the chicks?

[Noisycricket]

Im a little confused as to how to figure out what animations are already completed. Are the red texted animations in the master list always current?

[Mortem Desino]

Oh, and did I mention the chicks?

Yeah, but those only come AFTER release! Don't forget that it'd look good on a resume...

 

I'd stay away from the green-colored ones: those are claimed by someone already. I can't vouch for how up-to-date the list may be, so if you want to work on a high-priority red one: best if you post here and ask if anyone's working on it.

[Springheel]

Actually, that list is totally out of date. It was made for the old skeleton we were using, but we have since switched to the new rig, which you have. Very few animations have been completed for the new rig. I'll see about updating that list.

[Springheel]

I've updated the list, so it should be accurate now.

 

-idle streching (arms go behind shoulders, then out, then back down)

 

One thing to be aware of is clipping...if AI reach too far away from their body, it increases the chance they'll clip into things. They have a little less clearance on the sides than they do front and back, as they essentially stand in the middle of a cylinder. If you have the arms go straight out to the sides (can't tell if that's what you mean above) then that will be a pretty "clip prone" animation. Straight out in front is probably ok.

[Noisycricket]

One thing to be aware of is clipping...if AI reach too far away from their body, it increases the chance they'll clip into things. They have a little less clearance on the sides than they do front and back, as they essentially stand in the middle of a cylinder. If you have the arms go straight out to the sides (can't tell if that's what you mean above) then that will be a pretty "clip prone" animation. Straight out in front is probably ok.

 

I share you concern about clipping. However, I can't think of a single guard standing position where that would be an issue. Its been a long time since i've played through Thief 1 and 2 though, so perhaps im just memory deficient right now. Seems like out front would be worse, because of guards standing next to railings. You make the call Springheel, i'll make it look natural either way.

[Mortem Desino]

Well, it's partially a problem with creating special exceptions. "Oh no: you shouldn't put a guard in a corner of a room! What if he decides his shoulder hurts and needs to stretch?"

 

Stretching out front would be pretty safe because you won't find a guard THAT fascinated staring at a brick wall that he impulsively has to reach out and hug it.

[Noisycricket]

Keep in mind my likely ignorance to the TDM engine and current levels when i respond... I don't know how or when the animations cycle, or if the map maker chooses them. I've only the Thief series and Thievery to reference in my head. In your example Mortem, rare as it would be i would think for a mapmaker to place a standing idle position dead in a corner, as long as you gave him around 1.5 body widths on either side of him, you'd be in the clear. All the Thief games have the animation and TDS's were done while walking as well. My plan was to stretch the arms out at a 45 degree angle upward. Again, you guys make the call, i don't know the scripting or levels, i'm fine either way, trust me on that!

[Noisycricket]

1. Is it possible to rotate the head where it attached to the neck?

 

 

2. Can joints be added for breathing animations? ie, one for the belly, two for the chest? Note: when i lift weights, which i do to make my day job easier, i notice my biceps muscles pushing off my ribs, pushing the arms out with each inhale. Could potentially add a psychologicly based virtual look of strength to the guards.

 

3. Can I manipulate the fingers individually?

 

4. Do/will idle animations wait till the previous idle animation is done before it move on to the next?

[Noisycricket]

Yeah, but those [girls] only come AFTER release!

 

I'd stay away from the green-colored ones:

 

....Will do....

[greebo]

I can only respond to two of these, I think:

 

3. Can I manipulate the fingers individually?

I think so, yes. I recall new joints being added for the full-fingered hands.

 

4. Do/will idle animations wait till the previous idle animation is done before it move on to the next?

Yes. This is done by our AI IdleState code, which paues between animations.

 

Another question: have you already looked into getting your sneeze anim into the game? This step might be quite important to be able to work independently from others - creating the anim in Maya is the first step, the second one is to export the anim to its .m5anim format the D3 engine can understand. The third step is to assign those anims to the existing characters, which I can help you with a bit, I suppose.

[Noisycricket]

I'll try and follow the Wiki guide before i bother you. Is the sticky post in this forum about the maya binary and/or fbx files still something i need to pay attention to? I not quite sure what that is. Do you want me to upload these anywhere?

[greebo]

I think the .mb files are what we want to be in the repository.

 

Did you check out the model_src repository already? There should be a couple of maya binaries and .ma files lying around there. The model_src repo is the primary file storage for models and animations, and it serves as world-wide backup facility at the same time.

[Noisycricket]

Doh, first problem.. I can't download the MayaImportx86 file from the wikipedia link. I don't have SVN access. I tried logging into the ftp server using the password to check there, but the password didn't work. I tried using the http link as well and get an error: 403 forbidden message.

[greebo]

Ok, so I gather you haven't sent a PM to sparhawk yet? You'll need to do that to get access to our SVN repositories. It should be mentioned on the startup info thread I sent you a while ago.

 

Which version of Maya are you using? There should be links to the corresponding DLLs on doom3world.org too, but I might have downloaded all of them myself a few months back, so it could be that I have a suitable DLL copy around here somewhere.

[Springheel]

I share you concern about clipping. However, I can't think of a single guard standing position where that would be an issue. Its been a long time since i've played through Thief 1 and 2 though, so perhaps im just memory deficient right now. Seems like out front would be worse, because of guards standing next to railings. You make the call Springheel, i'll make it look natural either way.

 

I'm at work so I can't make a decent illustration, but imagine the AI standing inside a tall cylinder. This cylinder is his "bounding box", that determines when he bumps into things. Anything *outside* that cylinder is essentially insubstantial (ie, it will clip into things). So if an AI stretches his arms out straight from his sides, then his hands/forearms will stick out of the cylinder and could potentially clip into walls. There is a little more room in front of the AI than there is to the sides because the human body is wider sideways than forewards. Maybe someone can post a picture of an AI with the bounding box on to help you out.

 

1. Is it possible to rotate the head where it attached to the neck?

 

I don't understand exactly what you're asking, but in general, you should not animate the head unless it is very important to the animation (like a sneeze would be). In most cases, the code will over-ride what the head is doing anyway, so the AI can continue to look at the player.

 

2. Can joints be added for breathing animations? ie, one for the belly, two for the chest? Note: when i lift weights, which i do to make my day job easier, i notice my biceps muscles pushing off my ribs, pushing the arms out with each inhale. Could potentially add a psychologicly based virtual look of strength to the guards.

 

We won't be adding any new joints to the skeleton at this point. However, Spine2 is used for breathing during the idle animation, I believe.

 

3. Can I manipulate the fingers individually?

 

Not completely. The thumb and index fingers have their own joints, but the last three fingers share the same joints (*handring1-4).

 

4. Do/will idle animations wait till the previous idle animation is done before it move on to the next?

 

Yes.

 

 

Do you want me to upload these anywhere?

 

You could send the maya files to me if you'd like. eric 'at' mindplaces dot com.

[squill]

well most questions have already been answered. But i'll add if i can.

 

?

2. Can joints be added for breathing animations? ie, one for the belly, two for the chest? Note: when i lift weights, which i do to make my day job easier, i notice my biceps muscles pushing off my ribs, pushing the arms out with each inhale. Could potentially add a psychologicly based virtual look of strength to the guards.

 

Spine2_ ctrl gives you enough control to simulate a breathing motion. The current rig is not that advanced that you can independently control the upper or lower body but should be suffient to create most animations. Ingame you'll encounter a lot of characters in the shadows, subtle movements are not always that clear to see.

 

3. Can I manipulate the fingers individually?

 

If you select the wand shaped ctrl (above the hands) you'll find a thumb, pointer and pinky curl control. With this and the grab option you'll be able to create most of the hand anims. Again it's not that advanced but if we need more custom finger options (spread for example) i could add those if really needed.

[Noisycricket]

Ok, so I gather you haven't sent a PM to sparhawk yet?

No, i wasn't sure that I should since it says for "team members" to do that. I will send him a note.

[Noisycricket]

I'm at work so I can't make a decent illustration, but imagine the AI standing inside a tall cylinder. This cylinder is his "bounding box", that determines when he bumps into things. Anything *outside* that cylinder is essentially insubstantial (ie, it will clip into things). So if an AI stretches his arms out straight from his sides, then his hands/forearms will stick out of the cylinder and could potentially clip into walls. There is a little more room in front of the AI than there is to the sides because the human body is wider sideways than forewards. Maybe someone can post a picture of an AI with the bounding box on to help you out.

 

No need to explain or post a bounding box, I programmed a simple pong game with a bounding box for the ball. I think I see what your saying about the circle potentially leaving A.I. closer to a wall on his sides than from its front/back when its done searching for a player. Isn't the A.I. programmed to return to its previous activity/post when its done searching for the player? From what your saying, apparently not. I've seen A.I. standing still after searching for a player, but i thought it was a bug because it was staring at a wall.

[Springheel]

Isn't the A.I. programmed to return to its previous activity/post when its done searching for the player?

 

Yes, generally. I don't see how that's relevant though. All I'm saying is that if you have a character sticking his arms out far to the sides (and I don't even know if that was your intent), then his hands will clip into anything nearby him, whether he's standing by a wall or patrolling past a pillar, or whatever.

[Noisycricket]

So patrolling A.I. will do idle animations, i didn't know that, good to hear. I read that map makers choose the idle animations, so i have been running under that assumption too.

 

How about stretching the arms at 75ish degrees upward, then bringing them back down closer to the body, rather than having them swing back down away from his body?

[Springheel]

The AI play idle animations any time they are in an "idle" state (ie, have not been alerted). Since D3 can break animations up by torso or leg channels, the AI could play the "sneeze" animation while standing, walking, or sitting (it would only play on the torso channel for the last two).

 

I read that map makers choose the idle animations, so i have been running under that assumption too.

 

The list of possible idle animations is set by us and is then selected at random every 30 seconds or so by the code. Mappers could theoretically make their own list for individual characters but that's pretty unlikely.

 

How about stretching the arms at 75ish degrees upward, then bringing them back down closer to the body, rather than having them swing back down away from his body?

 

It's hard for me to visualize what you mean, but feel free to experiment with whatever you think looks good.

[Noisycricket]

The AI play idle animations any time they are in an "idle" state (ie, have not been alerted). Since D3 can break animations up by torso or leg channels, the AI could play the "sneeze" animation while standing, walking, or sitting (it would only play on the torso channel for the last two).

 

 

 

The list of possible idle animations is set by us and is then selected at random every 30 seconds or so by the code. Mappers could theoretically make their own list for individual characters but that's pretty unlikely.

 

 

 

It's hard for me to visualize what you mean, but feel free to experiment with whatever you think looks good.

 

Copy that. 70% done with the spitting animation, much trickier than i thought it would be.

[Noisycricket]

For the stretching animation, i can't rotate the shoulders 90 degrees up to put the hands behind the upper neck without the shoulder area of the mesh getting completely distorted. Can i use another model to do that animation to make sure it looks right?

 

Also, I may have to modify the animation to take into account the huge shoulder-guards the Hammerite guards wear.