This is going to be a fantastic mod

[demagogue]

My old house was the first thing I made in dromed while I was living in Japan, back in early 2000, by memory. Another thing I did was my old college campus. It actually is a sort of fun project to try to build familiar areas by memory.

 

Now that would be a sweet project. Making a TDM version of your home.

[plasticman]

Now that would be a sweet project. Making a TDM version of your home.

Better not do this. You could end up blackjacking your family...

[swordbreaker]

Yeah, I was really really tempted to map our new apartment with DR because the free 3d modelling programs (sweethome 3d f.i.) are really really crappy to use and miss tons of features.

 

Actually, using DR is still a good idea, probably needs a few textures, tho... hohum.

 

check google sketchup out if you haven't tried yet.

 

 

Better not do this. You could end up blackjacking your family...

lol

[Tels]

check google sketchup out if you haven't tried yet.

 

"For Windows XP/Vista & Mac OS X (10.4+)"

 

I am on Linux...

[Noisycricket]

I think theres going to be a lot of jaws dropping to the floor when this mod is released

 

(but also lot of "One or two nitpicks though....do you plan on adding such and such"? )

[Diego]

WOW Those screenshots are breath taking.. Stop teasing us already!

 

BTW, those models I'm working on WILL be finished!

[Melan]

To make building FMs even easier there will be a startpack FM download available with all the main components for a finished FM. (...) For now, browse the summary and introduction to keep it in mind for the future....

http://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?...appers%27_Guide

That's beautiful. I have been thinking about learning level building in TDM (although I am also yearning for starting a new Dromed project now that I have submitted my final PhD), and a starter kit would be a godsend to learn the ropes, just like Tim Stellmach's Dromed Principles map was a godsend for getting the philosophy of Dromed.

 

I am still not entirely sure I understand the whole additive geometry paradigm. In Dromed, you would build interesting architecture via a succession of solid and air brushes - i.e. a house would be built as basic shape (S) --> facade (A+S) --> windows (A) --> interior (A) --> interior decor (A+S) etc. Do I understand correctly that this is not the desirable way in TDM/DR, and instead, I should be thinking in terms of solids only? I have read the tutorials, but I am still not sure about it.

 

There is another thing that makes me curious - I have read in a number of posts that architecture is only half of the work. Do I assume correctly that the non-building phase of TDM is more involved than in Dromed, or am I off base with this assumption?

[greebo]

Do I understand correctly that this is not the desirable way in TDM/DR, and instead, I should be thinking in terms of solids only? I have read the tutorials, but I am still not sure about it.

Did you read through this page here?

http://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?...Mod_Differences

 

There is another thing that makes me curious - I have read in a number of posts that architecture is only half of the work. Do I assume correctly that the non-building phase of TDM is more involved than in Dromed, or am I off base with this assumption?

As you've finished DromEd missions, I don't think this warning about "geometry = half the work" applies to you. It's basically a heads-up for rookie builders, who never built a thiefy mission before.

 

People seem to have the tendency to get DarkRadiant and rush off planning their massive 7 map FM campaign with ground breaking features and open forests and lava! which will of course be finished in two months. They over-estimate pure geometry and under-estimate the amount of work which should go into readables, hints for players, playtesting, bugfixing, balancing. I guess experienced DromEd mappers don't need to be warned of that.

[Fidcal]

Melan, before the startpack I still recommend you spend a day or so with the A-Z to build the tiny demo to grasp the basics. You don't need to follow or apply every section. You can skip over things you feel comfortable with.

 

When I said building is only half of it this is the same in Dromed. When you are building raw terrain, progress seems fast. Depending on your methods within weeks you can have lots of rooms. You can build a small mansion in say 3 weeks. Then spend 2 weeks adding AI, readables, setting up objectives, and most important, fixing problems (this varies depending on how techy or how simple you made the FM.) Then a week testing yourself and polishing it off. Then beta testers test it for a week or two. Then you spend a week fixing the stuff the beta testers reported. Some faults. Some recommendations, eg, that climb is too hard. Oh I managed to get over a wall but there is no way back. It's too squeaky clean - needs more dirt and grime decals everywhere. And so on. Finally one more week and you release 9 weeks after you started. Probably you thought you were nearly finished just after the 3 weeks mark when you were adding the details?

 

The above is not to put you off. 9 weeks to build a nice little mansion FM is fine. Just don't consider it finished too early. I 'finished' Nightwatch for Thief 2 about August 2006. I mean, *really* finished it. Terrain, AI, readables, objectives, the lot. Then I started my own thorough game testing. Now of course I had tested everything over and over while developing but now I was polishing it over proper play testing. Every day I scribbled down note of things to fix. pages of them. TWO MONTHS later I submitted it to beta testers expecting they would sail through it and find very little wrong. *WRONG!* It was eventually released at the end of January 2007. Admittedly this was a complex, very techy, 4-mission pack but you get the idea.

[Melan]

Thanks for your rapid responses! So, it looks like the amount of non-architectural work is comparable to Dromed - that's pretty good actually, and as long as no complex scriptwork is required of users, it should be all right. I am afraid I still don't understand the whole way of building, even though I have read and reread those pages including the A-Z tutorial - but I am sure trying it out in practice will clear it up, as others have managed to create some impressive terrain without difficulty. There is no question about going through the basic tutorials, but there are still philosophical things I am wrapping my head about.

 

I will leave you to your work now; people will lynch me if they think I am delaying the mod.

Edited September 22, 2009 by Melan

[Fidcal]

Just think of your FM as a space station. Perhaps a submarine is a better analogy because I think any leaks are described as 'coming in'. Different modules are made of walls and connected together by doorways sealed by airlocks. The whole space station needs to be sealed against the void and each module needs to be sealed against the other modules except via the airlock when it is open of course. These internal 'airlocks' are visportals. In Dromed these are made automatically and invisibly when you 'portalize'. You see them as black panels sometimes if you get an error in a doorway both in Thief 2 and in Doom3. That is because they go black when closed which you don't normally see because it's inside a closed door or round thenext bend. In Doom3 you make them manually but then you don't need to make 'room brushes' to propagate sound so they cancel out. It becomes second nature to fill a doorway or a bend in a corridor with a visportal. It means the software only has to process the part that the player can actually see and so improves performance.

 

When you drag out a simple solid brush you can click a button to convert it to a room. But all it is doing is converting the one solid brush into 6 panel brushes - 4 walls, ceiling, and floor. Or you can just drag out the panels manually.

 

It seemed odd to me before I started doing it but everyone finds it natural probably within minutes of actually doing it. Take a look at http://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?...Getting_Started which is a mission I thought I'd 'nearly finished'.

[Melan]

Hm, it is starting to come together. Thanks.

[Fidcal]

Also meant to say in reply but forgot, scripting is not essential for making FMs any more than it was in Thief. It helps if you have some task that can't be done any other way or might be done more easily with scripting - but it's certainly not essential to learn scripting in order to make good FMs. But anyone who does learn scripting has an extra useful tool.

[swordbreaker]

Btw is tdm beta going to be compatible with saint lucia map? it's the map that forced me to learn DR and build some things.

[Fidcal]

It will need a few changes to get it to work with the Dark Mod Release code and assets. Mainly just changes to texture paths and entity names. I'm not sure if the briefing will work. We are likely to re-release it at some point.

[Mortem Desino]

For the most part, yes. For plenty of other parts: no. A lot has changed in 11 months (released Oct 21.)

 

Jdude wants to fix it up and re-release it, but he's really extremely busy at school.

[swordbreaker]

good to hear that. I would like to see improvement of TDM in SL.

[Chris108]

Hi there,

 

Long time lurker, first time poster.

 

You guys have made a beautiful mod and I really do look forward to playing it. I can't praise it enough.

 

Who would have thought that the IdTech 4 engine was so versatile I'm used to just seeing dull metal corridoors I'm glad you were able to get the best out of it.

 

All the best,

 

Chris

[greebo]

Thanks again, everybody, for cheering us on. Rest assured, the release is getting closer and closer.

[Diego]

Is it done?... Are we there yet?.. Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? ...

 

Sorry, I just watched Shrek

[Crispy]

Might as well call it a marathon and watch the whole series... you've got time.