Jump to content
The Dark Mod Forums

This is going to be a fantastic mod


Carnage

Recommended Posts

My old house was the first thing I made in dromed while I was living in Japan, back in early 2000, by memory. Another thing I did was my old college campus. It actually is a sort of fun project to try to build familiar areas by memory.

 

Now that would be a sweet project. Making a TDM version of your home.

What do you see when you turn out the light? I can't tell you but I know that it's mine.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, I was really really tempted to map our new apartment with DR because the free 3d modelling programs (sweethome 3d f.i.) are really really crappy to use and miss tons of features.

 

Actually, using DR is still a good idea, probably needs a few textures, tho... hohum.

 

check google sketchup out if you haven't tried yet.

 

 

Better not do this. You could end up blackjacking your family...

:ph34r:

lol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

check google sketchup out if you haven't tried yet.

 

"For Windows XP/Vista & Mac OS X (10.4+)"

 

I am on Linux...

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

 

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To make building FMs even easier there will be a startpack FM download available with all the main components for a finished FM. (...) For now, browse the summary and introduction to keep it in mind for the future....

http://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?...appers%27_Guide

That's beautiful. I have been thinking about learning level building in TDM (although I am also yearning for starting a new Dromed project now that I have submitted my final PhD), and a starter kit would be a godsend to learn the ropes, just like Tim Stellmach's Dromed Principles map was a godsend for getting the philosophy of Dromed.

 

I am still not entirely sure I understand the whole additive geometry paradigm. In Dromed, you would build interesting architecture via a succession of solid and air brushes - i.e. a house would be built as basic shape (S) --> facade (A+S) --> windows (A) --> interior (A) --> interior decor (A+S) etc. Do I understand correctly that this is not the desirable way in TDM/DR, and instead, I should be thinking in terms of solids only? I have read the tutorials, but I am still not sure about it.

 

There is another thing that makes me curious - I have read in a number of posts that architecture is only half of the work. Do I assume correctly that the non-building phase of TDM is more involved than in Dromed, or am I off base with this assumption?

Come the time of peril, did the ground gape, and did the dead rest unquiet 'gainst us. Our bands of iron and hammers of stone prevailed not, and some did doubt the Builder's plan. But the seals held strong, and the few did triumph, and the doubters were lain into the foundations of the new sanctum. -- Collected letters of the Smith-in-Exile, Civitas Approved

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Do I understand correctly that this is not the desirable way in TDM/DR, and instead, I should be thinking in terms of solids only? I have read the tutorials, but I am still not sure about it.

Did you read through this page here?

http://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?...Mod_Differences

 

There is another thing that makes me curious - I have read in a number of posts that architecture is only half of the work. Do I assume correctly that the non-building phase of TDM is more involved than in Dromed, or am I off base with this assumption?

As you've finished DromEd missions, I don't think this warning about "geometry = half the work" applies to you. :) It's basically a heads-up for rookie builders, who never built a thiefy mission before.

 

People seem to have the tendency to get DarkRadiant and rush off planning their massive 7 map FM campaign with ground breaking features and open forests and lava! which will of course be finished in two months. They over-estimate pure geometry and under-estimate the amount of work which should go into readables, hints for players, playtesting, bugfixing, balancing. I guess experienced DromEd mappers don't need to be warned of that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Melan, before the startpack I still recommend you spend a day or so with the A-Z to build the tiny demo to grasp the basics. You don't need to follow or apply every section. You can skip over things you feel comfortable with.

 

When I said building is only half of it this is the same in Dromed. When you are building raw terrain, progress seems fast. Depending on your methods within weeks you can have lots of rooms. You can build a small mansion in say 3 weeks. Then spend 2 weeks adding AI, readables, setting up objectives, and most important, fixing problems (this varies depending on how techy or how simple you made the FM.) Then a week testing yourself and polishing it off. Then beta testers test it for a week or two. Then you spend a week fixing the stuff the beta testers reported. Some faults. Some recommendations, eg, that climb is too hard. Oh I managed to get over a wall but there is no way back. It's too squeaky clean - needs more dirt and grime decals everywhere. And so on. Finally one more week and you release 9 weeks after you started. Probably you thought you were nearly finished just after the 3 weeks mark when you were adding the details?

 

The above is not to put you off. 9 weeks to build a nice little mansion FM is fine. Just don't consider it finished too early. I 'finished' Nightwatch for Thief 2 about August 2006. I mean, *really* finished it. Terrain, AI, readables, objectives, the lot. Then I started my own thorough game testing. Now of course I had tested everything over and over while developing but now I was polishing it over proper play testing. Every day I scribbled down note of things to fix. pages of them. TWO MONTHS later I submitted it to beta testers expecting they would sail through it and find very little wrong. *WRONG!* It was eventually released at the end of January 2007. Admittedly this was a complex, very techy, 4-mission pack but you get the idea. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for your rapid responses! So, it looks like the amount of non-architectural work is comparable to Dromed - that's pretty good actually, and as long as no complex scriptwork is required of users, it should be all right. I am afraid I still don't understand the whole way of building, even though I have read and reread those pages including the A-Z tutorial - but I am sure trying it out in practice will clear it up, as others have managed to create some impressive terrain without difficulty. There is no question about going through the basic tutorials, but there are still philosophical things I am wrapping my head about.

 

I will leave you to your work now; people will lynch me if they think I am delaying the mod. ;)

Edited by Melan

Come the time of peril, did the ground gape, and did the dead rest unquiet 'gainst us. Our bands of iron and hammers of stone prevailed not, and some did doubt the Builder's plan. But the seals held strong, and the few did triumph, and the doubters were lain into the foundations of the new sanctum. -- Collected letters of the Smith-in-Exile, Civitas Approved

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just think of your FM as a space station. Perhaps a submarine is a better analogy because I think any leaks are described as 'coming in'. Different modules are made of walls and connected together by doorways sealed by airlocks. The whole space station needs to be sealed against the void and each module needs to be sealed against the other modules except via the airlock when it is open of course. These internal 'airlocks' are visportals. In Dromed these are made automatically and invisibly when you 'portalize'. You see them as black panels sometimes if you get an error in a doorway both in Thief 2 and in Doom3. That is because they go black when closed which you don't normally see because it's inside a closed door or round thenext bend. In Doom3 you make them manually but then you don't need to make 'room brushes' to propagate sound so they cancel out. It becomes second nature to fill a doorway or a bend in a corridor with a visportal. It means the software only has to process the part that the player can actually see and so improves performance.

 

When you drag out a simple solid brush you can click a button to convert it to a room. But all it is doing is converting the one solid brush into 6 panel brushes - 4 walls, ceiling, and floor. Or you can just drag out the panels manually.

 

It seemed odd to me before I started doing it but everyone finds it natural probably within minutes of actually doing it. Take a look at http://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?...Getting_Started which is a mission I thought I'd 'nearly finished'. :blush:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hm, it is starting to come together. Thanks. :)

Come the time of peril, did the ground gape, and did the dead rest unquiet 'gainst us. Our bands of iron and hammers of stone prevailed not, and some did doubt the Builder's plan. But the seals held strong, and the few did triumph, and the doubters were lain into the foundations of the new sanctum. -- Collected letters of the Smith-in-Exile, Civitas Approved

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also meant to say in reply but forgot, scripting is not essential for making FMs any more than it was in Thief. It helps if you have some task that can't be done any other way or might be done more easily with scripting - but it's certainly not essential to learn scripting in order to make good FMs. But anyone who does learn scripting has an extra useful tool.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi there,

 

Long time lurker, first time poster.

 

You guys have made a beautiful mod and I really do look forward to playing it. I can't praise it enough.

 

Who would have thought that the IdTech 4 engine was so versatile I'm used to just seeing dull metal corridoors I'm glad you were able to get the best out of it.

 

All the best,

 

Chris

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Might as well call it a marathon and watch the whole series... you've got time. ;)

My games | Public Service Announcement: TDM is not set in the Thief universe. The city in which it takes place is not the City from Thief. The player character is not called Garrett. Any person who contradicts these facts will be subjected to disapproving stares.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...