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Doom III Thief Co-op in development


Midnight

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So, please reconsider branching out from TDM :)

 

I totally agree with you, but I don't think he's actually reading this post. :) Also pretty sure he doesn't have a membership here, but if someone could direct him to the thread then perhaps he'll take notice.

 

So, can you give me the mod's name? I'd like to try it out for myself. After all, the graphics cards get faster and faster every generation, so on a Radeon HD5k things might look a little different, performance-wise.

 

Soft shadows are something best left until the source code becomes available. People are free to try plugging it in, but it's not something we'll be able to package officially.

 

As the author states.

 

This will probably be the last test release for the soft shadows unless I have some kind of breakthrough in solving the performance and light bleeding problems.

 

It's not quite ready for primetime.

 

Playing with these shaders can be quite the huge task, especially with the variety of video cards out there. Poor rebb worked for months to get his enhanced shaders to work properly across all the different video cards out there.

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I don't think he's actually reading this post. :) I don't think he has a membership here.

 

Erm, I forgot to mention that somebody please post that on Doomworld :) (duh!)

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

 

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

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It looks more like an ninja game, two assasins in coop, using the tools of a thief to run round a linear castle killing everything, I think the assets he wants from tdm are probably textures and some objects, like weapons, and ai animations. From the way everthing is lit up, there's no stealth required.

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  • 2 months later...

(Sorry for the Necro...)

 

It looks like this author has worked extensively with the doom3world community to gain assets for his 5.56mm Full Metal Jacket mod which includes 2 things of interest:

 

1) An Object LOD system for foliage (I'm not sure of the quality... will check it out soon).

 

2) Grass shader?

 

I hate to spoil any chance of collaboration further but I do agree that his "art-style" is not up to par (especially in comparison to TDM!). But if he's a reasonable fellow he may share some ideas anyway (or point us to the doom3world peoples who helped him ;) )...

Please visit TDM's IndieDB site and help promote the mod:

 

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(Yeah, shameless promotion... but traffic is traffic folks...)

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Tried out 5.56mm Full Metal Jacket...

 

When I poked around in the pk4's I found that several of the Materials are actually named Ground Zero and the map that highlights his LOD system is gz_springhill which is literally labeled "Ground Zero Spring Hill" when you launch it!

 

So my crazy thread about Ground Zero's LOD system has come full circle, Chris from Scared Pixel Studios is VERY LIKELY using some of Ground Zero's LOD techniques.

 

Impressions:

 

1) The LOD transitions were pretty well hidden in that map...

2) Much less foliage than NHAT 3/3

3) Close-up trees were even lower-poly than TDM's but were still respectably tree-like (but uglier)...

4) Performance was around 30fps on my lowly P4 3.0ghz (When I look away from the lighted path in NHAT 3/3 I get about 20fps in some tree-dense views... lighted path is 6fps :()

 

So I'm not sure that this is any better than what Tels did performance-wise... And the language of "Groups of Entities" from Ground Zero seems to be similar to how Tels described his LOD material...

 

But it still may have merit someone with a better brain might see something that I don't...

 

Foliage_g.mtr

 

treeleaves1

{

qer_editorimage textures/treeleaves_d.tga

 

 

nonsolid

noimpact

twoSided

translucent

 

 

{

blend diffusemap

map textures/treeleaves_d.tga

alphatest .25

}

 

{

bumpmap addnormals (textures/treeleaves_local.tga, heightmap( textures/treeleaves_h.tga, 3 ) )

}

 

}

 

redgrassspring

{

qer_editorimage textures/grass_red_spring_d.tga

 

nonsolid

noimpact

twoSided

translucent

 

 

{

blend diffusemap

map textures/grass_red_spring_d.tga

alphatest .25

}

 

 

}

 

treeleavesspring

{

qer_editorimage textures/treeleaves_spring_d.tga

 

nonsolid

noimpact

twoSided

translucent

 

 

{

blend diffusemap

map textures/treeleaves_spring_d.tga

alphatest .25

}

 

 

}

 

redgrass

{

qer_editorimage textures/grass_red_d.tga

 

 

nonsolid

noimpact

twoSided

translucent

 

 

{

blend diffusemap

map textures/grass_red_d.tga

alphatest .25

}

 

 

}

 

treeleaves

{

qer_editorimage textures/treeleaves_d.tga

 

 

nonsolid

noimpact

twoSided

translucent

 

 

{

blend diffusemap

map textures/treeleaves_d.tga

alphatest .25

}

 

 

}

 

treetrunk

{

stone

qer_editorimage textures/treetrunk_d.tga

diffusemap textures/treetrunk_d.tga

bumpmap addnormals (textures/treetrunk_local.tga, heightmap( textures/treetrunk_h.tga, 3 ) )

}

 

models/mbtree01/branch_master01

{

noShadows

nonsolid

noimpact

twoSided

 

qer_editorimage textures/miketree/branch_master01_d.tga

 

{

blend diffusemap

map textures/miketree/branch_master01_d.tga

alphaTest 0.4

}

 

specularmap textures/miketree/branch_master01_s.tga

bumpmap textures/miketree/branch_master01_local.tga

 

 

}

 

models/mbtree01/canopy1

{

qer_editorimage textures/miketree/canopy1_d.tga

 

deform sprite

noShadows

nonsolid

noimpact

twoSided

 

{

blend GL_SRC_ALPHA, GL_ONE_MINUS_SRC_ALPHA

map textures/miketree/canopy1_d.tga

}

}

 

models/mbtree01/treetrunk01

{

stone

diffusemap textures/miketree/treetrunk01_d.tga

specularmap textures/miketree/treetrunk01_s.tga

bumpmap textures/miketree/treetrunk01_local.tga

}

 

textures/mikebart/mossyrock01

{

diffusemap textures/miketree/mossyrock01_d.tga

specularmap textures/miketree/mossyrock01_s.tga

bumpmap textures/miketree/mossyrock01_local.tga

}

 

 

Maybe someday there will be an FMS Forest contest and we'll see Torch waving Commoners roving the woods! :)

Please visit TDM's IndieDB site and help promote the mod:

 

http://www.indiedb.com/mods/the-dark-mod

 

(Yeah, shameless promotion... but traffic is traffic folks...)

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Niels, how about some screenies, so that the rest of us can get an impression without having to d/l the FMJ mod.

My Eigenvalue is bigger than your Eigenvalue.

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Will do when I get home...

 

(Again, I don't want to jeopardize our relationship with Chris but..., man is the bloom and light-scale over-done... :wacko:...yuck...)

 

(Yeah it's over 500mb so I will post screenies...)

Edited by nbohr1more

Please visit TDM's IndieDB site and help promote the mod:

 

http://www.indiedb.com/mods/the-dark-mod

 

(Yeah, shameless promotion... but traffic is traffic folks...)

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I know, it really makes one's eyes bleed. I've seen videos of the Thief Co-op mod, and it was really overdone. 

My Eigenvalue is bigger than your Eigenvalue.

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I get some of these shader mods as Doom 3 inherits most of it's look from the lighting rather than textures (or that was the intention anyway...) it's much easier to plug-in a shader than to re-texture everything. It's kind of fortunate that these types of mods didn't come to fruition before TDM was well under way or TDM might not have as many wonderful texture assets because the existing textures would look "good-enough" to most folks when covered in Bloomy goo... If you've seen the High Resolution texture mods for Doom 3, it really brings home the point that even Doom 3's native lighting and shaders look great when paired with more detailed textures and normal maps...

 

Not to go too far OT but I've been thinking about rebb's ambient fix as of late and I have the following speculation about the native ambient:

 

1) The unusual exaggerated falloff is a very crude approximation of Ambient Occlusion (which other Doom 3 mod authors have been trying to add back since rebb's fix removes this effect...)

 

2) The Black polygon artifacts from the native ambient are Id's way of trying to hide silhouettes and have the normal maps stand a better chance of approximating geometry... again very crude but probably the best a Geforce 2 can do...

 

Since we've made the silhouettes more pronounced, perhaps we should look at some of the less expensive solutions (silhouette textures?) to hide them again (as apposed to Parallax Occlusion Mapping which is still way too expensive....) Of course, the higher-poly models in general also help with this (but they don't help my old-bones CPU that is screaming in agony :laugh:)

 

Humus Silhouette Algorithm:

 

!!ARBfp1.0

 

OUTPUT output = result.color;

TEMP normal, lightVec, viewVec, reflVec, diffuse, specular, light;

 

PARAM specExp = 32;

PARAM base = { 1, 0.7, 0, 0 };

 

 

DP3 normal.w, fragment.texcoord[0], fragment.texcoord[0];

RSQ normal.w, normal.w;

MUL normal, fragment.texcoord[0], normal.w;

 

DP3 lightVec.w, fragment.texcoord[1], fragment.texcoord[1];

RSQ lightVec.w, lightVec.w;

MUL lightVec, fragment.texcoord[1], lightVec.w;

 

DP3 viewVec.w, fragment.texcoord[2], fragment.texcoord[2];

RSQ viewVec.w, viewVec.w;

MUL viewVec, fragment.texcoord[2], viewVec.w;

 

DP3 reflVec, viewVec, normal;

MUL reflVec, reflVec, normal;

MAD reflVec, reflVec, 2, -viewVec;

 

DP3_SAT diffuse, lightVec, normal;

DP3_SAT specular, reflVec, lightVec;

POW specular, specular.x, specExp.x;

 

MAD light, diffuse, base, specular;

MAD output, base, 0.1, light;

 

END

 

Humus Detail Preservation

 

( I suspect that this may require Vertex position :( ... )

 

Yep, needs Depth data at least... from what I can tell "w-buffer"? so another depth capture hack candidate but still less expensive than POM... :(

 

(BAH!!! this is all malarkey! I didn't see that this was only the Pixel Shader portion, he has the Vertex Shader in a separate file... I told ya that I usually post before thinking... Gah! :blush: )

Edited by nbohr1more

Please visit TDM's IndieDB site and help promote the mod:

 

http://www.indiedb.com/mods/the-dark-mod

 

(Yeah, shameless promotion... but traffic is traffic folks...)

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The over-saturation isn't too bad in that shot because a cloud is obscuring the sun (weather effect)...

 

But this is all mostly moot... Tels is working on own his solution further :D ...

Please visit TDM's IndieDB site and help promote the mod:

 

http://www.indiedb.com/mods/the-dark-mod

 

(Yeah, shameless promotion... but traffic is traffic folks...)

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Not to go too far OT but I've been thinking about rebb's ambient fix as of late and I have the following speculation about the native ambient:

 

1) The unusual exaggerated falloff is a very crude approximation of Ambient Occlusion (which other Doom 3 mod authors have been trying to add back since rebb's fix removes this effect...)

 

If they indeed tried to simulate ambient occlusion, then they invented horrible-occlusion in the process - just look at what character models look like in standard Doom3 ambient lights, it's nowhere near what AO should be ( sometimes referred to as the "coalmine look" ).

 

It's much more likely that id played around with ambient light implementations, but ended up not using any in the final game, so they left their implementation as crude and simple as possible ( also to keep performance up on the hardware of the time ).

 

Which mod authors are you talking about who are "trying to put it back in" btw ?

You make it sound like i magically put this fix into every shader in existence.

 

The core of the fix doesn't even have anything to do with how the ambient light looks, it's just "detecting" if there is ambient-light shading to be done instead of standard-light shading.

 

Controlling the actual "look" of the ambient lighting is then up to whatever instructions you want to use inside the vfp.

 

Humus Silhouette Algorithm:

 

Humus Detail Preservation

 

From what i can see, this page is pretty much describing what is now commonly called "normal-mapping".

The page being from 2003 is probably a reason for the different naming of this, since the whole concept was just gaining momentum back then, largely driven by Doom3 itself ( which came out in 2004 ).

 

The pixel-shader of this page contains a phong shader algorithm based on a normal-map, and the vertex-shader does nothing related to silhouettes, it just passes the light-vector and camera-vector and transforms the vertex position using the ModelViewProjection Matrix.

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I agree that Id's solution is horrible but it does look a little like AO... For the low-light environments in the game it does exaggerate depth a little...

 

I presume that all other lighting inherits it's look from the ambient so any additional shaders will use your work as part of the input, no?

 

SSAO

 

Screen Space Ambient Occlusion

 

 

 

Yeah that Humus thing is a gaff all around but it looks like it fixes the silhouettes... An OpenGL version of this technique might work better:

 

Silhouette Textures

 

But perhaps adding some of the the exaggerated falloff back for low-light areas would help obscure silhouettes better but not as terrible as Id's version

 

(...well, the HDR mod's use of falloff textures pretty much completes that part anyway so that point may be moot as well? Or should be directed at JC Denton? But it may be less expensive to add it to the ambient as Id has done...?)

Edited by nbohr1more

Please visit TDM's IndieDB site and help promote the mod:

 

http://www.indiedb.com/mods/the-dark-mod

 

(Yeah, shameless promotion... but traffic is traffic folks...)

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I agree that Id's solution is horrible but it does look a little like AO... For the low-light environments in the game it does exaggerate depth a little...

 

Id software didn't use the ambient light with no fall off in Doom 3 at all, that's why it was left unfinished...essentially broken and useless. Normal ambients yes, but not the one rebb fixed.

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Thanks for the clarification, I thought rebb's fix was a general solution for in-game ambient I didn't realize that it (ambient) was never used in-game...

 

(I was just going by the look of the screens on rebb's site for my hunches... )

 

 

(Ahh! I see the confusion... I was saying that mod authors were trying to add AO back because I presumed that any mod author with a set of eyeballs would include rebb's work in their mod :laugh: ...)

Edited by nbohr1more

Please visit TDM's IndieDB site and help promote the mod:

 

http://www.indiedb.com/mods/the-dark-mod

 

(Yeah, shameless promotion... but traffic is traffic folks...)

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(Yep the Humus thing is all placebo so Silhouette Textures would be the only area of interest if any :blush: )

Edited by nbohr1more

Please visit TDM's IndieDB site and help promote the mod:

 

http://www.indiedb.com/mods/the-dark-mod

 

(Yeah, shameless promotion... but traffic is traffic folks...)

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  • 3 years later...

The Dark Mod is currently may favorite game. Considering that the Thief series has been my favorite for about a decade, I imagine that TDM will be my favorite game for a long time. Co-op multiplayer would make this great game even more fun!

Edited by SirGen
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  • 1 year later...

A little update on the Thief Deadly Shadows Themed Coop Project..

 

The "Thievious" project has been renamed to "Venture" and here is some test-footage running on idtech4...

 

Thief: Deadly Shadows @ idtech4 by Oneofthe8devilz
==============================================


Now porting a game to a complete different engine/codebase is of course a gigantic task (especially for a "one man" team) so when you watch the early WIP footage below please bear that in mind, with me still figuring out how to rebuild game assets, shaders and code the most efficient way. But the general idea is to slowly port the game mission by mission, asset by asset to idtech4...

(click on the image to playback the youtube video)



Garrett@NightmareBurrows@Venture

(click the image to watch the youtube video)


I am still looking for fellow modders to join this project to speed up the development... Edited by oneofthe8devilz

I got six little friends and they all run faster than you ;)

 

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Aren't these the same videos you posted last year?

 

Yes indeed, I finally re-discovered this original co-op thread here at the forums and thought I would bring it up to date since the last post here seems to have been from "July 15th 2013"...

 

Feel free to delete the "Offtopic" thread... as this is really the place this update should have gone to in the first place...

I got six little friends and they all run faster than you ;)

 

sps_banner_icon.jpg

Check out our mods at

moddb or the SPS Homepage

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So this is idTech 4 or U2 (your post confused me a bit). If it is idTech 4, you should read up about patches ;)

 

And for the understanding. Do you want to create a coop game or are you going to recreate TDS in idTech 4, as the latter doesn't seem useful to me and may cause some copyright issues if you are using the assets from TDS.

 

If you are working on coop, it may be more worthwhile to take a look at idTech 4 as it originally had a multiplayer part afaik and think about how a coop could be added to TDM.

 

Just my two cents, though. :)

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