Persistent Data Storage - need we be concerned?

[Fidcal]

I shelved Firefox again. I only was using it for one website that is troublesome in Opera but I finished up with more hassle than it was worth. But that thread about disabling javascript made me rethink my Opera settings. I think it was Tels who said to switch off scripting by default and enable it only for trusted sites (white list versus black list) I didn't see how that could work because almost all websites use javascript. However, I'm trying it now in Opera. It's very easy to set up in Opera because you just set the global off and the site pref on. At the very least this should diminish those lengthy advert-gathering sessions on every web page load.

 

But this thread is about Persistent Data Storage. Wikipedia only gives a tech view and nothing about the implications. PDS sounds like a secret mega-cookie to me with no controls. Most browsers have cookies on/cookies off (or delete on exit which is my default) but I see nothing in Opera for PDS except individual deletion every session!

 

Am I missing something here? What's the point of having simple cookie control if they just invent uncontrollable stealth mega-cookies?

 

Opera has on the prefs page 'Use application cache - yes/no/ask' but since I don't know what that means it's not of much help. If it means 'permit PDS' why don't they f well say so? And even if it does, I see no per-site setting. Nor do I know how it might affect browsing if set to no.

[STiFU]

I can't help you regarding PDS, sorry. But I would like to note, that there is also another way of blocking java script and flash, namely the extension "NotScripts". Works just the same way as the similar Firefox-extension: All scripts are blocked by default and when you click on the NotScripts-Icon, you can choose in a popdown-menu what content (domains) on the current site to fully execute. The cool thing about this is that ad- or tracking-sites have a different domain than the actual homepage you're currently surfing on, so you can keep the ad-sites blocked and only allow the real site.

[7upMan]

SFiFU, is Ghostery doing the same thing as NotScripts, or should I install both extensions in parallel?

[Fidcal]

OK - just insalled notscript but can't see any way to operate it. The website says I must set User javascript quota but I can't find that anywhere in the prefs - advanced - javascript options.

 

There's a mention of a button and a drop down menu but I can't find either.

 

I re-enabled javascript in the prefs but no difference.

 

There are some comments on the site that this might be out of date and unsupported - maybe it doesn't work with Opera 12?

[jaxa]

I'm using Opera 12.00. I have already had NotScripts installed, though I use Firefox and Opera only to test pages. I went to their website. Last version was released in April 2011 to work with Opera 11. I clicked on the button and it seemed to come up blank but it worked a little while later. I allowed opera.com for example. Look for the pyramid button.

 

Whitelisting sounds like a lot of work but you'll quickly get it done with. You probably visit 50 Web sites 90% of the time. Once you've whitelisted their domains, you don't need to do it again. You'll find that many domains that you don't want to whitelist and aren't broken by disabled JavaScript will load a lot faster.

Edited July 25, 2012 by jaxa

[stumpy]

the only other cookie I know about are flash cookies, which store settings for any flash and they also control the amount of storage on your computer for video files used in advertizing, you usually get a popup on a flash video requesting to store information on your computer, although if you set it to zero auto starting flash video's cant be turned off. I have to use a spyware program to remove flash cookies, it identifys them as spyware. so this might be the persistent data storage mentioned in opera.

[Fidcal]

Mmm... it's very confusing.

 

Regarding the notscripts - I don't have a pyramid button anywhere. What bar is it on? I re-enabled every bar and there is no such button that I can see. But then, I can't see that search field either. What happened to that I don't know.

[jaxa]

Why don't you go to Opera - Extensions - Manage Extensions and make sure you have it installed.

[Fidcal]

That was the first thing I checked - it's there all right and enabled with options to disable and uninstall. There is a big pyramid icon there but it seems to be passive. There are a couple of privacy options but that's it.

[jaxa]

Here is what you should see.

[STiFU]

Ah, crap. NotScripts is outdated? That makes sense, as I had been experiencing some weird behavior lately. It still works, but sometimes it also lists domains of other tabs...

 

@7upMan: I did not know Ghostery yet, but from what I read, I'd say it'd be good to use them both.

 

@Fidcal: You adressbar should look somewhat like this, with the icons of the extensions on the right.

 

If those icons aren't visible, goto your interface adjustment menu (shift-f12), toolbar settings and make sure that one checkmark is set, that shows all toolbars during adjusting. If the extension toolbar isn't visible now as well, something is really off with your opera setup. But if it is, click on it and choose your desired displaying options in the toolbar settings dialog.

[Fidcal]

Do you mean we're supposed to set up a button manually for noscripts? I thought it would do it automatically. Why don't they say so?

 

This is my extensions panel and my button bar...

 

[STiFU]

No, usually the button is visible by default but it is possible that you have somehow hidden the extension toolbar. Maybe it is also related to you not using the new opera skin style...

[Fidcal]

Mmm... So there's an extension toolbar? It's not listed in the menu or the toolbar dialogue. I've just done a search and there was something about adding a wrapper to the 'Opera' toolbar but I don't have an Opera toolbar nor is there a wrapper at the place the guide says so I guess that's for an old version.

 

I did find something that says extension buttons go to the right of the search but I removed search long ago and can't remember how to get it back (I don't want it back anyway!) I can't find anything anywhere in customize about the search input.

 

I'll only click Opera Help as an absolute desperate last resort because it's search is rubbish. I always google for help even if it leads me back to the opera web help.

 

Maybe only one extension button is allowed on the address bar? I already have one extra button - autoscroll but I don't think it's an extension. Maybe its a plug in. It's just a bit of script that auto-scrolls continuously because the Opera one is rubbish.

 

The only other extension I have installed is Ghostery and its disabled - I forget why.

[STiFU]

I have four extension buttons on my adressbar, so that's not it.

 

I actually tried to remove my extension-bar in order to try to get it back, so that I can tell you what to do, but I wasn't able to remove it the usual way, so it's really a mystery, why those icons are not visible for you...

[STiFU]

Check this out, it is an tutorial on how to achieve certain things with the extension toolbar. I guess your best approach would be to move it to another parent toolbar. Maybe you have somehow hidden the default parent toolbar...

[lost_soul]

I mostly use Ad-block plus and I keep the browser set to private mode to prevent sites from "keeping me logged in" so they can spy on me and record everything I do.

 

Also, I started using Flashblock when I learned about Flash cookies and how they remain. I have friends who still use old P4 systems and I will recommend Flashblock to them next time I see them. If not for their privacy, than to keep unwanted **** from loading as they browse the web, chewing up their CPU and limited bandwidth.

 

In closing, I leave you with this.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204880404577225380456599176.html

[Fidcal]

That's grim reading but not surprising. It's a bloody jungle out there. I'll look into adblock and flashblock. I have heard of adblock of course but ignored it because Opera includes a content blocker so I assumed it was similar. Thanks for that.

[lost_soul]

Flashblock is pretty neat. Instead of the element loading, you just get a blank spot with an "f" in the middle. When you click the "f", it loads as it normally would. This will eliminate unwanted audio ads and the like all together.

[jaxa]

Flashblock is pretty neat. Instead of the element loading, you just get a blank spot with an "f" in the middle. When you click the "f", it loads as it normally would. This will eliminate unwanted audio ads and the like all together.

 

This is a model that is used by Noscript with Firefox, other extensions for various browsers, and at least one browser for one type of content by default, in a recent update, if I'm getting it right. It's pretty convenient for when you want to watch embedded flash videos, but not the other stuff.

Edited July 29, 2012 by jaxa

[Fidcal]

Flashblock sounds similar to what is provided in Opera called plug-ins on request so if you don't click it, it don't work. I never found Flashblock for Opera anyway.

 

I installed Adblocker but it was like noscript - extensions are just not working for me. I get no controls, no button.

[Tels]

The persistant storage is technically like a the browser cache, with the added benefit that it is accessible via javascript (from the webapplication developer's views).

 

If a website has large amounts of static data, the browser will not redownload the data when it is in its cache (think background images etc.). However, for dynamic webpages (like maps.google.com, or online games) a lot of the content is semi-static (e.g. sometimes only a bit of it changes), and also needs to be read by javascript (like points of interest on a map).

 

Javascript cannot really read images (e.g. get at their content), so the persistant storage was invented. Also, sometimes the player wan'ts to save game to the HD (instead of storing it online), which is impossible with the cache. This is a feature which is per-computer, so from the POV of the gamer it is actually silly (your laptop and your PC don't have the same data), but sometimes it is what you actually need.

 

The user still has full control (like the cache, you can delete the contents of the storage, enfore a size limit or even prevent the browser from having one). In fact, the user has more control (the storage is per domain, unlike the cache, which is global).

 

This poses of course problems for the site (you cannot depend on the storage to be there, and must be prepared for it to be empty), but that's just the way it is.

 

Anyway, apart from all the good usage cases, websites can also store persistant cookies in the storage, which is bad from the user's POV. Luckily, you can prevent this from the browser settings, by either only allowing a few domains you trust, or disallow the storage completely.

[Fidcal]

OK, well now I've just deleted all the websites listed and set 'use application cache' to 'ask' and see what happens.