Newbie DarkRadiant Questions

[Serpentine]

SSBump is only really good with working on more organic diffuses - which just happen to often be the hardest to make normals for.

 

For something like this when you in essence want the texture to have two layers (glass and the raised lead surface). It's by far the best to produce the normal map from heightmaps as rich has suggested. However I have no ideahow you'd go about this with GIMP (well, not at least in a nice way).

 

In Photoshop I would most likely open the diffuse

Desaturate the image completely

Adjust "levels" so that the glass and iron are isolated (i.e glass hopefully becomes light grey while the lead is still black)

Use "Select Colour Range" to select the black areas.

Save the selection

Make two new layers - One black, one white

Swap to the white layer, open the saved selection, invert the selection and delete (should leave the lead areas as white) above the black layer

Since there will most likely be some excess white pixels in strange places, clean it up with the eraser.

Save as psd - In case you break something.

Start blurring the edges of the white so that there's a gradient for the normal map

Save it when you have something you think looks good (png without alpha)

Drag it into njob and convert heightmap -> normal. (or use the nvidia plugin, but it generally destroys my photoshop session, ymmv)

Save as tga and check ingame or with something that allows you to preview easily.

 

(for added points you can blend in a desaturated copy of the diffuse to bring detail to the glass, just play around with blend modes and stuff)

 

If all this sounds like too much work - I'd be happy to help out with the normals if you could upload the diffuses somewhere.

[Melan]

Serpentine: I will zip them up and send you a link to the archive -- if you can solve the question without too much trouble, it would be great. Thanks.

[rich_is_bored]

There is no quick and easy solution. Generally you try to identify things you can exploit. For instance, the lead bits which you're trying to isolate are dark. A curve or level adjustment might get you 90% of the way there. Posterize might work as an alternative. It depends how illuminated the glass is.

 

Also the features you're most interested in might be better defined in one of the separate color channels. But you have to examine them to find out.

 

Photoshop offers a few more options, namely changing the color mode to something like LAB or HSL but filters and adjustments aren't everything. The results aren't always ideal and you may have to clean the image up. Worse still, you may have to do some manual painting.

[_Atti_]

Moving my questions to this topic as they are more appopriate here

 

If i could make a separate model containing only flame, handplace it on the chandalier's candles, would i be able to set them to dissappear when the fake extinguisable light goes out? somehow join them with the light in that way? If yes than i think i am going to make one.

 

Btw:

models/lights/extinguisable/chandelier_6candles

 

Comes only with flames attached, so really it should go into non-extinguisable because even if a separate fake light goes out those flames remain and cant be extinguised ingame.

If above mentioned could work i will need to create a no-attached-flames version of this. (or maybe there is one i just didn't find)

[Springheel]

i will need to create a no-attached-flames version of this.

 

You don't need a new model; just create a skin that switches the texture "textures/particles/candlefire" to "textures/common/nodraw".

[_Atti_]

Good idea, thanks:)

[_Atti_]

I wanted to make a switch, the one that only actives its target if it switches successfully, now i wanted to block it from successfully switching with another slidable mover. What property does that slidable mover or the switch need to get blocked in its movement? I guess there is a solution as it does stop if my playerbox blocks it.

I tried finding similarities with how doors get blocked from entities but didnt find much or what i've found did not work.

Is it maybe that movers cannot be blocked by movers? even if the other mover is still?

[Fidcal]

Yes, I did this very thing in Heart. The trick is to bind a moveable blocker to the second mover with bind <movername>. So for example, I had a mover bolt (door entity but could be a lever etc) that slides through a metal loop on a door. In fact the metal loop was just for show. Behind the metal loop is a metal flat mount which is a brush converted to atdm:moveable_junk_base and given frobable 0 and bind <doorhatch>. This is blocked by the mover bolt and so blocks the hatch door. So in this case the hatch door was not technically locked - it was physically blocked by the lock bolt.

 

[_Atti_]

thanks, decyphering now:)

 

Yes it is working beautifully!

Edited May 18, 2010 by _Atti_

[_Atti_]

Okay, so the thing is finally working great. it took some time to carefully place a nodraw solid binded to the lever so it works how i wanted. I think i've found some bugs:

 

- The electric grill light doesnt react to switches if the unlit version is used. The lit one is perfectly working. (tested also with a simple button that had to be working)

 

- Buttons can be pushed from behind mover (but it seems even from behind brushes), do i have to bind some more solid thing to the mover to prevent? well, tried binding a nodraw solid to the whole mover and buttons still can be pushed.

Edited May 18, 2010 by _Atti_

[Fidcal]

If the buttons don't ever want frobbing then give them frobable 0. Otherwise, some alternatives you can try (depending on your setup)

 

• 
   
  
• Reduce frob_distance on the buttons so the buttons are within range when they are supposed to be but not otherwise.
  
• Place a frob-blocker between the player and the buttons. This is a thin brush of caulk converted to func_static and given frobable1.
  
• Surround buttons with a clip brush and give it atdm:target_set_frobable. If this affects other frobables nearby give them immune_to_target_setfrobable 1. But now you need to target the atdm:target_set_frobable from something to make the buttons frobable/not frobable, so it depends on your setup.
  

[_Atti_]

Thanks.The first two did not work out. I am trying to achieve it with the third but now my openable panel(this what targets the setfrob) can't be frobbed while it should work...

 

Found the problem, somehow altough it does not touch the panel but the target_set_frobbable disabled not only the buttons but the door as well...making it immune now makes everything works like charm.

 

Thanks again for the help.

[_Atti_]

And: problem with chandaliers solved, applied separate candlefire particles then targeted them from the fake light..

when the light extinguishes it takes down all particles with it very nicely, and by that i mean they dont just dissappear but extinguish nicely( well no smoke).

So the candle thing i mentioned can work also.Example, but maybe its only new to me:

[Snakebite]

Is it wrong if I use multiple brushes for each wall instead of using one big room brush?

One more question: is there a list of "right sizes for things"? I mean is a pain to reconstruct a whole bunch o stuff after you made them once but to an inappropriate size or at a wrong distance from/to something.

 

This is for Fidcal - Thanks to your mission - The heart of lone salvation - I decided to start to learn Dark Radiant. I never got along with Dromed but Dark Radiant seems quite easy to use. I still have a lot to learn but I hope you guys can help me.

Edited May 20, 2010 by Snakebite

[Mortem Desino]

Is it wrong if I use multiple brushes for each wall instead of using one big room brush?

One more question: is there a list of "right sizes for things"? I mean is a pain to reconstruct a whole bunch o stuff after you made them once but to an inappropriate size or at a wrong distance from/to something.

 

1) That's okay, as long as the brushes don't overlap and then z-fight. I do it all the time while mapping: I'll have wood paneling on the bottom of a wall, and put wallpaper above it.

 

2) What I do is I put a lone AI in my map, like a citywatch, so I can tell how big something is compared to a person.

[Melan]

Welcome, Snakebite!

 

1) It is always a good idea to break up your wall a bit, for example with a wallpaper in the middle, and trim at the top and the bottom, or with outcropping supports, or anything irregular. If it is easier for you, you can also make an "exterior wall" to seal against the void, and then add the inner detailwork as a thin shell over it (maybe even turn it into func_static). That way, it is easier to find the source of leaks.

 

2) What Mortem suggested -- I used an AI-sized, brightly coloured brush as a marker for dimensions, but if you add a few items like a chair, a streetlamp or a canopy to your scene, you can make even better estimations. And if you need to, you can always delete them later.

[Fidcal]

Good to hear there is another mapper Snakebite! One other tip to add to the others: try to avoid big open spaces at least in your first try as a beginner because of performance problems. The open start area in Heart was a pain even for me. It is possible to some extent but you need experience to design something like the city and forest in No Honor Among Thieves. Start small and learn as you go.

[Snakebite]

How do I bind a door handle on a door? I didn't found a bind function anywhere.

[Melan]

Just position the handle and input "bind" and the door entity ID/name into the entity box.

[Darkman]

hey guys

 

just another question about lighting:

 

as far as i know, shadows from static lights (no moving/flickering) are precalculatet, at least for all static shadow-throwing volumes that are within range. So, they they cost only few performance, compared to moving lights (origin does move), where no shadows can be precalculated.

 

But i would like to know, how lights are calculated/impacting performance, which are not moving but flickering?! i was really surprised when the performance in my current map dropped massively, even if the polygon-count was low and only few lights existed (but they were all flickering and had a big range)...

[Melan]

That's mixing things a bit.

1) Lights with the noshadow property set to 1 are lighter on performance than lights which cast shadows. Unfortunately, noshadows light goes through solid architecture, which can be a problem.

2) Overlapping, shadow-casting lights are always heavy on performance, and should be used conservatively. The more shadows there are, the worse the performance.

3) Moving lights (like swinging lanterns) are even heavier, especially when combined with the above.

 

4) Light shaders (which modify falloff, flickering and the like), as far as I know, don't cause a performance hit beyond the previous considerations (someone correct me if they do), so it doesn't matter if you are setting up your light as a round aura or an animated flickering. They are always precalculated, and the shader just "forms" it to a desired effect.

 

Here is a good basic guide on performance, especially in large areas.

Edited May 20, 2010 by Melan

[Darkman]

That's mixing things a bit.

1) Lights with the noshadow property set to 1 are lighter on performance than lights which cast shadows. Unfortunately, noshadows light goes through solid architecture, which can be a problem.

2) Overlapping, shadow-casting lights are always heavy on performance, and should be used conservatively. The more shadows there are, the worse the performance.

3) Moving lights (like swinging lanterns) are even heavier, especially when combined with the above.

 

4) Light shaders (which modify falloff, flickering and the like), as far as I know, don't cause a performance hit beyond the previous considerations (someone correct me if they do), so it doesn't matter if you are setting up your light as a round aura or an animated flickering. They are always precalculated, and the shader just "forms" it to a desired effect.

 

Here is a good basic guide on performance, especially in large areas.

 

to 4) that's what i thought too - so it was a big surprise, when i changed most lights from flickering to non-flickering and performance became fine (from about 20-40 fps to 60 fps, caped by v-sync). thats why i wonder, if there IS an important difference or its a special "map-based" problem...

[Snakebite]

I was wondering if there is a way to hide some of the work I already finished, in order to have a good view of the work area on all the axis views. I am building room by room (it fits me best) and it's getting crowded.

 

Also I would like to know how to create a circular brush (let's say in order to make a latrina hole) and I would like to know if it is possible to cut a circular window in a wall for example.

[Melan]

Yes; two methods in fact.

1) Select whatever you want to hide (brushes, objects, patches, AI... you name it) and press H. Using Shift+H returns all hidden things into view. This is obviously for small and temporary stuff.

2) If you only want to work at a segment of your map at a time, you can select portions of it and sort them by layers. After you have selected the things you wanted gone, right click, Move to Layer. You can activate a layer panel with Ctrl+L, allowing you to hide or display layers, create new ones and more.

 

Here is how to do circular bits of architecture and holes:

A. With Brushes:

1) Create a cylindrical brush by selecting a rectangle, then hitting Brush > Prism and select as many faces as you want (more than 20-24 is overkill though).

2) Cut circular holes into a wall by inserting a brush and hitting CSG Subtract (left panel). You should generally NOT do this if you can avoid it, because it complicates geometry and creates a lot of miniature brushes which can (as I have heard) seriously screw up a level. Therefore...

B. With Patches:

1) Create a brush. Go to Patch > Create Cylinder and create a cylinder. If you need it topped, select Patch > Cap Selection > Cylinder. You now have (mostly) the same thing as A1, but with less sides, and thus fewer polygons.

2) Cut a rectangular hole in the wall (either with the clipper tool or hell, even CSG Subtract). Add a quarter-sized brush in it, and convert it into a bevel with Patch > Create Bevel. Then Cap Selection > Inverted Bevel. Rotate to fill all four corners. (Also, experiment with Thicken Patch; it's easy and very useful for things like vaults and similar things.)

 

edit: These links could also be useful: Patches; CSG Operations; Discussion on CSG Subtract and why you should stick with patches instead (from #145)

Edited May 20, 2010 by Melan

[Fidcal]

Two other ways to hide stuff.

 

Most importantly because it is quick and focuses on the area you want instantly is RegionSetXY, I don't know the default key but I have mine set to R. Look it up in the key shortcuts on the edit menu. In Top grid view just hit R and everything outside the top grid view is hidden even in camera and other views. Hit R again at any time in any area. I use this ALL the time. Use RegionOff (see shortcut keys) to clear

 

The other way also uses the region setting but is better for horizontal slices (which I think is what you want.) So say you are working on Floor 2 but all the stuff on Floor 1 and basement is confusing the view. Drag out a large brush to cover the floors you don't want. Give it textures/editor/region (any texture will do but this is not rendered and it is clear what it is for. Whenever you want to hide those floors:

 

Select the brush.

Hit clone to duplicate it.

menu > view > region > set from brush.

Hides everything not within the brush.

This deletes the brush (but its a clone so you keep the original for next time.)

It is imperfect in that stray lights might be visible that were not in the brush so take care if you then drag select for some reason, eg, to move to a layer.

Once again, use RegionOff to clear,