Atheran
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Posts posted by Atheran
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To Melan: Machinery is something I definitelly would love to do. I actually am already on the hunt for references of machines like that, tho' mostly from random google images or deviantart ones under "steampunk". Haven't found anything that would really fit in TDM yet tho' so if you happen to have any such references somewhere I'd really love to do it. I do vaguelly remember those from when I played it some 10 years ago but saddly I do not have the games now
To Melan and Grayman: As I said to my first post I have no experience whatsoever in organic modeling and altho' statues are not organic what they're depicting is... That said I'm not saying I won't do any such stuff, but I don't really feel comfortable to as of now. If the statues you mean Melan are not depicting something organic but The Builders sign for example I'd have no problem doing them.
To Grayman: Something like the following image is something I see no problem of modeling.
With better textures of course and even add sculpted details on it or something. It's the organic shapes I have problem with.
But for more detailed stuff, I'll need some time to learn on organic modeling. Could you be a bit more specific on what kind of statue you want?
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Okay. After fiddling with it for a day or so I can't get the normal baking process to work properly. Until I manage to do so this model is on hold. I'll start working on props in my usual way again with building a lowpoly from the start and avoiding the highpoly to lowpoly step altogether.
Any ideas on stuff I should work on? Maybe assets that we don't have or don't have enough variations of?
EDIT: I see in the DR that some building are modular. Is modularity heavily used here? I'd love to work on that to be honest
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Any news Bikerdude? I'm trying to find a way to import .ase to maya but haven't found anything. I found how to export but not how to import yet
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If I make the lowpoly with simple boxes then yes... It'll be around 1k triangles. But I want to make something better than that with at least some bevels on the edges hoping it won't raise the polycount by much (it shouldn't). But my problem is that with bevels on the lowpoly mesh I get issues with baking the normal maps, and I still haven't found a way to tackle that.
I'll probably end up beveling the low poly and stop trying to smooth the edges even more with normals and use the normal map for the texture details (wood for example). Only problem with that is how I'm going to add the bolts in the normal as well...
And by the way the DR setup screenshot you posted helped me a lot and now I can open models normally. Thanks a ton for that.
If anyone has any experience with baking normals from high poly to low poly and then adding texture details to that normals I'd really could use some insight on it. Never worked with high polys before as I onl made low poly assets from the start and then used Ndo2 to add texture details on normals. I never used highpoly to lowpoly baking in my workflow before and I'm kinda stuck right now...
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Not at home right now but I'll try that when I get back. As for the model, I have finished the high poly but have some serious issues with baking it to low poly... It'll take some time probably. After I fix those problems it's mostly 1h work for me to have the low poly finishied/textured as well.
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Very nice models there. I saw it in the past but couldn't find it again. Was looking at your other thread in Art Assets. Making the lowpoly and normal maps now and my head hearts
As for your first point, I haven't seen any thread about that the bit I looked around. I managed to get a list of models (small one granted) when I added a path to a .pk4 folder from a fan mission but still when I hit rclick -> create model and see the list if I click on any model in there DR crashes
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Thanks a ton XendroX. That really, really helps. I'll try to play with DR because for rendering them I'll probably need to rebuild the lighting anyways and screwing with missions other people made is not something I'd like to do. But I still have to figure out how to get them into the DR. When I click the "Create Model" there's a window opening (I suppose it should have a list of models in there?) but it's completelly empty (also misses a "browse" button). But I'll figure it out.. In time.
I made the holes in the middle part as well so I guess I can call the high poly finished. What polycount should I target for the lowpoly? Baking the bolts and holes to the lowpoly with changing nothing else will drop it to ~4k. Is that acceptable or way to much for a prop?
EDIT: Is there a reason there's no bevel to almost any model in TDM? It wouldn't make the polycount much higher than it already is and it'd remove the screaming "CG" feeling most of them have. Mainly talking about wallls/doors/boxes etc. Nothing in real life is in exact 90 degrees angles. On another note I found a plugin for maya to export in .ase format but I still haven't found a way to open .ase files inside maya. Once I do and if there's no technical restriction for bevels I could try to start beveling the existing models if that's okay with everyone.
EDIT 2: Does DR support tesselation/Displacement maps? Or it's the usual way of bump/normal maps for small extruded details?
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Well... Not really anything special, just a thread where I'll post the models I'm working on. As of now I started making a desk, using as a reference a desk from Thief 4. My main problem is lack of ideas so I'm working on existing concepts art or already made models, recreating them. Most of the reference images in these forums are probably down or not working for me. So any help with concept art on creating something new would be really appreciated. If someone wants a specific model for his FM and has some concept made on it I'd be happy to help (but take a look at my PS first
)EDIT: I'm unable to create anything organic yet, so if anyone asks for a specific model, I can only do statics/props
I still have no idea how I can make use of the engine, so the renders will be from Maya viewport, using mental ray for now. When I finish a model I'll import and render it with Unreal engine, until I finally find out how to use DR.
Here is my non-finished desk (still working on the high poly model). Haven't made any UVs yet so no textures, just a simple Lambert shader with Global Illumination. Polys are at 6k at the moment.
Here is the reference model from a video in youtube.
I still have some details to add (like the holes in the middle between the drawers) and maybe some sculpting to do. Then, the low poly and UVs, and then the final render. I do not really like the way it is in Thief 4 (being 100% made of copper) so I'm thinking to make the top/legs at least from wood. Any ideas on that?
PS. My free time is kinda limited so I may be slow on updates, but I will continue working on models. Any C&C is highly appreciated as it's helping me improve.
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Any of those models (static ones mostly) still needed? The list is from '08 and I don't see any edits on it. I may have some free time between university and work to make some models for TDM, and I'd be glad to spend it like that.
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Guards don't "spawn" in the middle of the game unless mappers have specifically set them to do so, and that rarely ever happens.
As I said, it's probably me not paying enough attention...
Saying "it feels very unnatural" doesn't tell us anything other than your personal feelings. What specifically is it about the paths that you find unnatural?
Two things mostly.
1) The path is too narrow, which results to them following the exact same path every time (not a meter left or right than their previous patrol). That's probably up to the mapmakers but I haven't tested it yet in the engine to see how it works.
2) They move to a set point, sit there for some seconds frozen and then start walking again to the next point. I believe that this could be solved with some animations probably or by giving them a task to do, or set a small patrol in that area they stop so they move a bit around.
This ends up making them feel a bit robotic in my opinnion. But again, only have experience to speak about St Lucia. Don't know if it's better in other missions, if mechanics changed since then, if it's just a mapper option or whatever. I'm probably speaking before I test enough...
AI do react to finding dead bodies
Look around 8:50
Maybe the guards FoV was quite low but he's standing in front of 2 dead guards not noticing anything. Granted he has his back on them but that wasn't the case when he got there on his patrol. As for myself I can't provide a video with it myself as I never kill guards. Unless it's unnavoidable.
As for the .lwo export, my best hope is I'll find an .ase exporter. For some reason I can't find a .lwo one and I searched for it for a long time for another project
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I agree with what you said about lockpicking. The only reason I said about the minigame was that after you do it some (lots of times) it becomes boring. 2-3 different minigames would avoid that.
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Well... As I got given the rights to post, I think I should contribute a bit here. I'll probably get a bit out of the subject of this thread and instead of just posting suggestions only I may also ask a few questions. I never was a forums lover so I don't really see the reason of making multiple threads. If that's a problem a mod can poke me and I'll edit and move them around as they should be.
As a completionist and a packrat the first thing I did was to download ALL missions for this. And here is the first problem I had. For some reason every once in a while the .exe crashed while I was downloading. Didn't manage to find out what caused this (if it was a specific mission or something) but as it hasn't happened again since, I guess it's not my machines fault, and probably it's something with the downloader.
Another problem I had with downloading was all the time and clicks I had to spend to download all the missions. My suggestion would be to add a multi-select functionality to it with either checkboxes or a button "Download all". In buttons case tho' even if it helps some people like me, it'll be of no help to the majority of the people that want to download, say, 3-4 specific missions and not all of them. So I'd stick to the checkboxes suggestion.
As for the rest, what I feel like it needs some major work or an overhaul even, is the animations. They are simply put "funny", especially when the guards are attacking you. But we need a good animator for it. Nothing I can do here to help...
I haven't played much of it yet (been busy with thief 4), but I played Tears and started the "A score to settle". It seems like there are way too many "Oh hell! This guard spawned on top of me!" moments but that is probably a problem with me not paying much attention. As for the people that make the missions I'd suggest two things. First to make better paths for the guards (don't really know if it's a mapper not spending enough time to do it in a believable way, or a restriction the engine has, but it feels very unnatural), which combined with better animations would make a much more satisfying experience and provide better maps. In the "A score to settle" mission for example I spent like 30-40 mins trying to find the contact at the start, but I simply can't find him. A map noting where he is supposed to be would help a ton here (even the general area not his exact position). Animations for opening/closing doors or picking up items would be cool. I don't like watching my hands all the time lke in thief 4 (it's creepy) but picking up an item and seeing it floating is immersion-breaking.
Also as like many other people have done already I'd love some better AI for the guards. Things like finding a dead body or noticing if someone's missing from a patrol or from his spot should be obvious. Shouting for help as well...I'd also like some lockpicking animation/minigame like every game has in our days.
When loading a new mission even after I get the message that mission is loaded or the bar fills there's a lot of time left before I can actually play the mission. Don't know why that happens but I don't like it.
As for the engine itself I'd like some atmospheric effects, like thief 4 has (probably the best thing about thief 4). And the engine also needs better documentation. I read some wiki articles on the engine but didn't help much to be honest.
Now on what I can do to help...
As for now not much, until I understand the engine at least.
I study game development in college and I'm finishing in June. I know flash and edge (I highly doubt they can be of any use), C and Java from programing (Pascal and Basic are totally useless probably), and leaarning C++ at this cemester. I also know lots in photoshop and modeling ( I love modeling and hope I'll do it as a job eventually) so I could help with new models or textures. But first I have to find how to get Maya and Zbrush to export in .ase, and I also have to find through trial and error what polycount and texture resolution the engine can handle before there's a performance hit, unless someone can answer that for me. Also I need to understand how the engine handles the textures before I start making any. But I'll stick to props/enviroment as my organic modelling is subpar to even the lamest guard model in TDM.
And now time for the major question.
Following the tutorials in wiki about the engine I saw the writter making a room with brushes. Is brushes the only way for rooms/enviroment modeling? Or I can make the room/road/house/whatever in maya and import it?
And a couple more questions...
Does the engine support tesselation?
The images from the http://forums.thedarkmod.com/topic/189-concept-art-list/ do not load for me. Is it just me or is there something I can do about it?
My models
in Art Assets
Posted
I'd certainly love that Melan. It'll save me time from watching Thief 1 Let's Plays in youtube
Grayman, that might be above my abilities in max/maya but I'll give it a try with zbrush once I find out how to UV/bake there. I can promise I'll try but don't hold your breath on the result. I believe I can make the model in Zbrush but as we do not want 10m polys in props I'll have some or lots of work to do with trial and error. Good thing is that I'll meet with a friend next Wednesday who knows his stuff with Zbrush so he might be able to help with the converting to low poly proccess.