[Taking a step back... from the edge]

There. Both parties have now spoken peaceful and healthy words on the topic and healing can begin. So just knock it off and get the fug back in there!

 

Oh, and by the way, hi!

 

(I have no real clue what's going on beyond this post and have no desire to make light of it; I have myself been off and on gone forever due in no small part to a bunch of life changes and demands. That said, I'd hate to see either of you leave... so just, don't! )

[TDM 2.04 updater and XP]

Trying the threaded change. (Note that I do have multiple CPUs it asks for, though.)

 

Re: drivers. I am at the newest (307.83 -- I gave the wrong number above when I said 302.something), so that's covered, at least. As for rolling back... As this is currently my only system, I'm very reluctant to start messing around with that.

 

I do have the disabling of soft particles to fall back on, but it doesn't solve the issue, I know. Guh.

 

Edit: Ouch! The threaded change dropped my FPS from ~60 to ~45. Switching that sucker back (with a note to watch for problems).

 

Edit2: Heh.. just noticed the arms on the clock tower go backwards.

[TDM 2.04 updater and XP]

Yep, Doom3 is the only idtech4 offered. My current install is actually fresh (not our working folders from over the years) and Doom3 is uninstalled.

 

I created a new thedarkmod.exe entry. Doesn't allow the same "NVIDIA Recommended" setting for thread optimization, so I set it to auto. Now to try the other suggestions...

 

Nope, neither seemed to change anything I could see. :-/ Do you happen to know any problem caused by the multi setting? That must've been leftover to years ago when I used two monitors. Hm, I wonder if I gain performance from this change.

[TDM 2.04 updater and XP]

Here you are, and yup.

 

[TDM 2.04 updater and XP]

The setting in my control panel is "Use global setting (Allow)"

[TDM 2.04 updater and XP]

The water shader fix appears to work fine. In fact, enabling r_skipDepthCapture seems to cause a different, worse side effect -- some triangles of the water 'freeze' (pic 1). They simply stop animation the distortion effect. Turn r_skipDepthCapture back off and they begin animating again, and the front geometry stops distorting with the water. (pic 2)

 

 

 

Oddly, r_useSoftParticles seems to behave the same with the fog in the st. lucia sewer regardless of whether I turn it on or off. I can upload pics if you wish to see but they're not very exciting (all showing same thing basically). However, when I toggled the value on/off in the training mission, at a spot near the canal where a stairwell to a door is lit with some soft particles, I actually experienced the particle 'edges' with r_useSoftParticles ON, and didn't get it with the fix turned OFF. I triple checked to make sure I wasn't goofing something up, but it happened each time. WTH?

 

This one shows the banding:

 

And here is after turning off soft particles (no banding, or greatly reduced):

 

Just a bonus pic to show how jarring/extreme the whole thing can be. Using skipDepth or not doesn't change the image.

 

 

Edit: So currently, my best results -- I think -- are to keep r_skipDepthCapture off (to benefit water) and r_useSoftParticles also off (to avoid particles showing through surfaces and creating edges... which, if I understand correctly, it was supposed to fix, not cause...)

[TDM 2.04 updater and XP]

Now we're onto it! r_useSoftParticles 0 addressed it.

 

I guess the question now becomes:

1. why? what is it about soft particles that does this? where/how are they defined? Can it be 'fixed' to not cause this side-effect?

2. what does a user lose by disabling them (obviously soft particles, but what all does that include and ultimately mean)?

 

Also just to confirm (though it's already clear; I took this pic as you replied) it's not about the training map specifically:

 

That smoke is from the chimney a few surfaces behind where it's showing through the building.

[TDM 2.04 updater and XP]

Doesn't appear to be about the mission. As for the gpu, brace yourself: GF7950GT. Yes it's old, but all drivers are at max (302.something) and it does the job well for almost* everything I need.

 

It is something I can live with, but I'm left wondering if something can't be done to fix it easy. Idtech4 shaders always seem so ridiculously flexible and powerful, able to do things I wouldn't even have wished at. Seems like a simple issue of... stuff I don't know enough about to guess. Z-orders and buffer crap and whatever-other-majicks-and-mysteries. Any idea what SteveL's fix was? I see he hasn't been active for a while.

 

 

*I'd like to be able to run SpaceEngine, but no dice.

[TDM 2.04 updater and XP]

Any idea what that fix was (assuming it wasn't too extensive)? It does appear from the 2.04 video that it was fixed, so either it crept back in, or it wasn't fixed at all (for people in my situation, at least).

[TDM 2.04 updater and XP]

Yep. Uninstalled the training mission, deleted it, ran updater (which re-downloaded it), reinstalled, ran it. Still happens, unfortunately.

[TDM 2.04 updater and XP]

*waves to Bikerdude*

 

It's the training map, in the archery area. I stand against the chapelesque building, near the wall with the patrolling guard, then walk back/forward aligned with the archery ranges. Through the short stretch of wall shows light globes from the other side of the wall.

 

 

 

[TDM 2.04 updater and XP]

I'll definitely be trying the performance tweaks. Surprised the vram is still set to 128. That must stretch back years, across multiple PCs.

 

The r_offset values don't seem to be doing anything, though. I've set it up so I'm facing some offending light globes, changing the values (even beyond suggested above) at the console and I'm seeing literally no change at all. Any ideas?

[TDM 2.04 updater and XP]

Here you are, sir.

 

 

unbindall
bind "TAB" "inventory_hotkey ''"
bind "ESCAPE" "togglemenu"
bind "SPACE" "_moveup"
bind "-" "_impulse50"
bind "0" "_impulse5"
bind "1" "_impulse2"
bind "2" "_impulse1"
bind "3" "_impulse3"
bind "4" "_impulse4"
bind "5" "_impulse7"
bind "6" "_impulse9"
bind "7" "_impulse6"
bind "8" "_impulse10"
bind "9" "_impulse8"
bind "=" "_impulse49"
bind "\" "_mlook"
bind "]" "_impulse47"
bind "^" "_impulse0"
bind "`" "_impulse0"
bind "a" "_button5"
bind "b" "_impulse52"
bind "c" "_back"
bind "d" "_forward"
bind "e" "_impulse24"
bind "f" "_moveRight"
bind "g" "_impulse23"
bind "h" "toggle pm_crouchheight 38 50;toggle pm_crouchviewheight 34 46;"
bind "i" "inventory_cycle_group '#str_02391'"
bind "m" "inventory_cycle_maps"
bind "o" "_impulse19"
bind "p" "inventory_cycle_group '#str_02389'"
bind "q" "inventory_cycle_maps"
bind "r" "_impulse46"
bind "s" "_moveLeft"
bind "t" "_impulse44"
bind "v" "inventory_use '#str_02395'"
bind "w" "_impulse45"
bind "x" "_impulse50"
bind "y" "_impulse14"
bind "z" "inventory_use '#str_02396'"
bind "BACKSPACE" "inventory_hotkey"
bind "PAUSE" "pause"
bind "LEFTARROW" "_left"
bind "RIGHTARROW" "_right"
bind "ALT" "_impulse51"
bind "CTRL" "inventory_cycle_group '#str_02392'"
bind "SHIFT" "_speed"
bind "DEL" "_lookdown"
bind "PGDN" "_lookup"
bind "END" "_impulse18"
bind "F1" "inventory_hotkey '#str_02398'"
bind "F2" "inventory_hotkey '#str_02438'"
bind "F3" "inventory_hotkey '#str_02399'"
bind "F4" "inventory_hotkey '#str_02400'"
bind "F5" "inventory_cycle_group '#str_02389'"
bind "F7" "_impulse22"
bind "F9" "exec autoexec.cfg"
bind "F11" "savegame quick"
bind "F12" "loadgame quick"
bind "MOUSE1" "_attack"
bind "MOUSE2" "_impulse41"
bind "MOUSE3" "_zoom"
bind "MWHEELDOWN" "_impulse48"
bind "MWHEELUP" "_impulse47"
bind "PRINTSCREEN" "screenshot"
seta gui_mediumFontLimit "0.30"
seta gui_smallFontLimit "0.15"
seta radiant_entityMode "0"
seta net_socksPassword ""
seta net_socksUsername ""
seta net_socksPort "1080"
seta net_socksServer ""
seta net_socksEnabled "0"
seta win_ypos "84"
seta win_xpos "81"
seta sys_lang "english"
seta s_decompressionLimit "6"
seta s_useEAXReverb "1"
seta s_useOpenAL "1"
seta s_libOpenAL "openal32.dll"
seta s_numberOfSpeakers "2"
seta s_doorDistanceAdd "450"
seta s_globalFraction "0.8"
seta s_subFraction "0.75"
seta s_playDefaultSound "1"
seta s_volume_dB "-5.714285"
seta s_meterTopTime "2000"
seta s_reverse "0"
seta s_spatializationDecay "2"
seta s_maxSoundsPerShader "0"
seta s_diffractionMax "10"
seta r_screenshot_format "jpg"
seta r_debugArrowStep "120"
seta r_debugLineWidth "1"
seta r_debugLineDepthTest "0"
seta r_cgFragmentProfile "best"
seta r_cgVertexProfile "best"
seta r_forceLoadImages "0"
seta r_shadows "1"
seta r_offsetunits "-0.1"
seta r_offsetfactor "-2"
seta r_clear "2"
seta r_useSoftParticles "1"
seta r_skipDepthCapture "0"
seta r_skipBump "0"
seta r_skipSpecular "0"
seta r_skipNewAmbient "0"
seta r_renderer "best"
seta r_brightness "1.166667"
seta r_gamma "1.142857"
seta r_swapInterval "0"
seta r_useIndexBuffers "1"
seta r_customHeight "486"
seta r_customWidth "720"
seta r_fullscreen "0"
seta r_mode "5"
seta r_multiSamples "0"
seta image_mipmapMode "2"
seta image_blockChecksum "0"
seta image_downSizeLimit "256"
seta image_ignoreHighQuality "0"
seta image_downSizeBumpLimit "128"
seta image_downSizeSpecularLimit "64"
seta image_downSizeBump "0"
seta image_downSizeSpecular "0"
seta image_useCache "0"
seta image_cacheMegs "20"
seta image_cacheMinK "200"
seta image_usePrecompressedTextures "1"
seta image_useNormalCompression "2"
seta image_useAllFormats "1"
seta image_useCompression "1"
seta image_preload "1"
seta image_roundDown "1"
seta image_forceDownSize "0"
seta image_downSize "0"
seta image_lodbias "0"
seta image_anisotropy "1"
seta image_filter "GL_LINEAR_MIPMAP_LINEAR"
seta gui_filter_game "0"
seta gui_filter_idle "0"
seta gui_filter_gameType "0"
seta gui_filter_players "0"
seta gui_filter_password "0"
seta net_clientDownload "1"
seta net_master4 ""
seta net_master3 ""
seta net_master2 ""
seta net_master1 ""
seta net_clientMaxRate "16000"
seta net_serverMaxClientRate "16000"
seta m_strafeSmooth "4"
seta m_smooth "3"
seta m_strafeScale "6.25"
seta m_yaw "0.022"
seta m_pitch "0.022"
seta sensitivity "9.746032"
seta in_toggleZoom "0"
seta in_toggleCrouch "0"
seta in_toggleRun "0"
seta in_alwaysRun "0"
seta in_freeLook "1"
seta in_anglespeedkey "1.5"
seta in_pitchspeed "140"
seta in_yawspeed "140"
seta gui_configServerRate "0"
seta com_numQuickSaves "2"
seta com_guid ""
seta com_asyncTic "0"
seta com_fixedTic "0"
seta com_preloadDemos "0"
seta com_compressDemos "1"
seta com_product_lang_ext "1"
seta com_videoRam "128"
seta com_showFPS "0"
seta com_purgeAll "0"
seta com_machineSpec "-1"
seta g_spectatorChat "0"
seta net_clientLagOMeter "1"
seta r_postprocess_bloomKernelSize "2"
seta r_postprocess_bloomIntensity "0"
seta r_postprocess "0"
seta net_serverDlTable ""
seta net_serverDlBaseURL ""
seta net_serverDownload "0"
seta mod_validSkins "skins/characters/player/marine_mp;skins/characters/player/marine_mp_green;skins/characters/player/marine_mp_blue;skins/characters/player/marine_mp_red;skins/characters/player/marine_mp_yellow"
seta g_mapCycle "mapcycle"
seta g_voteFlags "0"
seta g_gameReviewPause "10"
seta g_countDown "10"
seta g_password ""
seta g_testModelHeadJoint "Spine2"
seta g_testModelHead "atdm:ai_head_citywatch"
seta g_showBrass "1"
seta g_showProjectilePct "0"
seta g_showHud "1"
seta g_showPlayerShadow "0"
seta pm_walkspeed "70"
seta g_showcamerainfo "0"
seta g_damageScale "1"
seta g_decals "1"
seta g_doubleVision "1"
seta g_bloodEffects "1"
seta g_projectileLights "1"
seta g_muzzleFlash "1"
seta gui_CenterY "0.5"
seta gui_CenterX "0.5"
seta gui_Height "1.0"
seta gui_Width "1.0"
seta r_fovRatio "0"
seta r_aspectRatio "0"
seta ui_showGun "1"
seta ui_autoSwitch "1"
seta ui_team "Red"
seta ui_skin "skins/characters/player/marine_mp"
seta ui_name "Player"
seta si_serverURL ""
seta si_spectators "1"
seta si_usePass "0"
seta si_warmup "0"
seta si_teamDamage "0"
seta si_timeLimit "10"
seta si_fragLimit "10"
seta si_maxPlayers "4"
seta si_map "game/mp/d3dm1"
seta si_gameType "singleplayer"
seta si_name "DOOM Server"
seta tdm_lod_bias "1.0"
seta tdm_voice_from_off_volume "-2.857143"
seta tdm_voice_player_volume "-2.539682"
seta tdm_music_volume "-5.079365"
seta tdm_ambient_method "0"
seta tdm_door_auto_open_on_unlock "0"
seta tdm_bow_aimer "0"
seta tdm_lp_debug_hud "0"
seta tdm_lp_pawlow "0"
seta tdm_lp_randomize "1"
seta tdm_lp_auto_pick "0"
seta tdm_lp_autopick_attempts "3"
seta tdm_lp_pick_timeout "400"
seta tdm_lp_sample_delay "10"
seta tdm_lp_base_count "5"
seta tdm_empty_model "models/darkmod/misc/system/empty.lwo"
seta tdm_lg_split "0"
seta tdm_lg_model "models/darkmod/misc/system/lightgem.lwo"
seta tdm_lg_weak "0"
seta tdm_lg_interleave "1"
seta pm_rope_snd_rep_dist "32"
seta pm_min_stepsound_interval "200"
seta pm_stepvol_crouch_creep "-7"
seta pm_stepvol_crouch_run "4"
seta pm_stepvol_crouch_walk "-2"
seta pm_stepvol_creep "-5"
seta pm_stepvol_run "8"
seta pm_stepvol_walk "0"
seta tdm_underwater_blur "3"
seta tdm_rope_pull_force_factor "140"
seta tdm_inv_use_visual_feedback "1"
seta tdm_door_control "0"
seta tdm_inv_use_on_frob "0"
seta tdm_inv_loot_sound "frob_loot"
seta tdm_inv_hud_pickupmessages "1"
seta tdm_hud_hide_lightgem "0"
seta tdm_hud_opacity "0.7"
seta tdm_grabber_reverse_control "0"
seta tdm_bounce_sound_min_vel "80"
seta tdm_bounce_sound_max_vel "400"
seta tdm_throw_max_vel "900"
seta tdm_throw_time "1200"
seta tdm_throw_max "3500"
seta tdm_throw_min "600"
seta tdm_phys_show_momentum "0"
seta tdm_ai_vision_hardcore "1.5"
seta tdm_ai_vision_challenging "1.2"
seta tdm_ai_vision_forgiving "0.6"
seta tdm_ai_vision_nearly_blind "0.2"
seta tdm_ai_vision "2"
seta tdm_melee_difficulty "normal"
seta tdm_melee_max_particles "10"
seta tdm_melee_forbid_auto_parry "0"
seta tdm_melee_auto_parry "0"
seta tdm_melee_invert_parry "0"
seta tdm_melee_invert_attack "1"
seta tdm_melee_mouse_thresh_ "0"
seta tdm_dragged_item_highlight "1"
seta tdm_drag_encumber_max "0.4"
seta tdm_drag_encumber_maxmass "55"
seta tdm_drag_encumber_minmass "10"
seta tdm_drag_jump_masslimit "20"
seta tdm_drag_af_free "0"
seta tdm_drag_af_ground_timer "800"
seta tdm_drag_damping_af "0.4"
seta tdm_drag_damping "0.0"
seta tdm_drag_stuck_dist "38.0"
seta tdm_drag_force_max "100000"
seta tdm_drag_limit_force "1"
seta tdm_collision_damage_scale_horiz "0.5"
seta tdm_collision_damage_scale_vert "1"
seta tdm_frob_fadetime "100"
seta tdm_frob_width "10.0"
seta tdm_frob_distance_default "63"
seta pm_lean_toggle "0"
seta pm_lean_door_bounds_exp "8.0"
seta pm_lean_door_max "40"
seta pm_lean_door_increments "10"
seta pm_lean_to_valid_increments "25"
seta pm_lean_forward_stretch "15"
seta pm_lean_forward_height "0.4"
seta pm_lean_forward_time "400.0"
seta pm_lean_forward_angle "2"
seta pm_lean_stretch "2"
seta pm_lean_height "0.4"
seta pm_lean_time "400.0"
seta pm_lean_angle "15.0"
seta tdm_reattach_delay "100"
seta tdm_crouch_toggle_hold_time "400"
seta tdm_toggle_crouch "1"
seta tdm_footfall_sounds_movetype_specific "1"
seta pm_mantle_minflatness "0.707"
seta pm_mantle_height "0.2"
seta pm_mantle_reach "0.5"
seta pm_weightmod "1"
seta pm_push_max_mass "200"
seta pm_push_heavy_threshold "0.15"
seta pm_push_accel_time "1000"
seta pm_push_start_delay "1000"
seta pm_push_maximpulse "300"
seta pm_pushmod "0.15"
seta pm_max_swimspeed_mod "1.4"
seta pm_crouchmod "0.54"
seta pm_creepmod "0.44"
seta pm_runmod "2.12"
seta tdm_savegame_compress "1"
seta tdm_force_savegame_load "0"
seta tdm_mainmenu_confirmquit "1"
seta tdm_debug_aastype "aas32"
seta tdm_allow_http_access "1"
seta tdm_proxy_pass ""
seta tdm_proxy_user ""
seta tdm_proxy ""
seta tdm_fm_restart_delay "0"
seta tdm_default_relations_def "atdm:team_relations_default"
seta tdm_show_trainer_messages "1"
seta tdm_menu_music "1"
seta tdm_wideScreenMode "0"
seta tdm_interaction_vfp_type "1"
seta tdm_ai_show_aasfuncobstacle_state "0"
seta tdm_show_health "0"
seta tdm_ai_debug_greetings "0"
seta tdm_ai_debug_transition_barks "0"
seta tdm_ai_opt_update_enemypos_interleave "48"
seta tdm_ai_opt_interleavethinkframes "0"
seta tdm_ai_opt_interleavethinkskipPVS "0"
seta tdm_ai_opt_interleavethinkmaxdist "0"
seta tdm_ai_opt_interleavethinkmindist "0"
seta tdm_ai_visdist_show "0.0"
seta tdm_ai_search_show "0.0"
seta tdm_showko "0"
seta tdm_showsprop_radius "0"
seta tdm_showsprop "0"
seta tdm_spr_debug "0"
seta tdm_sndprop_disable "0"
seta tdm_ai_acuity_susp "1.2"
seta tdm_ai_acuity_L5 "1.5"
seta tdm_ai_acuity_L4 "1.3"
seta tdm_ai_acuity_L3 "1.1"
seta tdm_ai_show_conversationstate "0"
seta tdm_ai_show_enemy_visibility "0"
seta tdm_ai_sight_scale "1000.0"
seta tdm_ai_sight_thresh "1.0"
seta tdm_ai_showelevator "0"
seta tdm_ai_showdoor "0"
seta tdm_ai_debug_blocked "0"
seta tdm_ai_showAASarea "0"
seta tdm_ai_showgoalpos "0"
seta tdm_ai_showdest "0"
seta tdm_ai_showalert "0"
seta tdm_ai_showtasks "0"
seta tdm_ai_showanimstate "0"
seta tdm_ai_showko "0"
seta tdm_ai_showfov "0"
seta tdm_ai_debug "0"
seta tdm_ai_bumpobject_impulse "250"
seta tdm_ai_tact "20.0"
seta tdm_ai_sight_combat_cutoff "20.0"
seta tdm_ai_sightmin "15.0"
seta tdm_ai_sightmax "40.0"
seta tdm_ai_sight_mag "1.0"
seta tdm_ai_sight_prob "0.7"
seta tdm_ai_showbark "0"
seta tdm_ai_sndvol "0.0"
seta tdm_player_wait_until_ready "1"
seta tdm_ai_hearing_hardcore "1.5"
seta tdm_ai_hearing_challenging "1.0"
seta tdm_ai_hearing_forgiving "0.6"
seta tdm_ai_hearing_nearly_deaf "0.2"
seta tdm_ai_hearing "2"
seta tdm_ai_showname "0"
seta g_enablePortalSky "2"
seta tdm_lg_interleave_min "40"
seta tdm_ai_search_type "4"

 

[TDM 2.04 updater and XP]

Thanks muchly for that! I've updated and it seems to be working well running 2.05.

 

I did run into the issue where halos of lights (and I assume other such effects) show through walls when viewed at a distance. Wasn't that corrected a build or two ago? I can live with it, just curious if I've missed a manual fix somewhere along the line or if it was still a problem.

 

Edit: Yes, according to the 2.04 video it was fixed in that release. I can't confirm whether or not it was fixed on my system as I never installed 2.04 (due to problems in this thread) but I can definitely say it's still happening for me in 2.05.

[TDM 2.04 updater and XP]

Just re-reading this thread and it's making my head spin. Or maybe it's my kid running around the house.

 

Does the latest 2.05 release bring back 32bit XP goodliness (please)?

 

I didn't see mention of these issues in tech supt or the change notes.

[TDM 2.04 updater and XP]

Damn. I came back to update to 2.04 today and ran into this myself. Yup, WinXP 32. *raises hand*

 

Sounds like, from above, that there's a need for versions of the updater prior to 0.65, and thus to disallow it to update itself. And, even with a working 2.04 (from win32-friendly binaries above) there might still be issues (malloc and graphics). So right now I'm debating just sticking with 2.03 (and its graphics bugs, which drove me to update in the first place...) and hoping some day will bring a 2.05 that supports XP 32bit. The wiki mentions the 2.04 dropbox binaries but omits the rest, that I've seen. Double damn, I hope this is an easy fix (compiler switch or such).

[What ever became of The Dead Gathers?]

Oh, dur. I should've thought to check that.

 

Would that I had more time. And more skill. And remembered how to use the editor. And...

[What ever became of The Dead Gathers?]

A WIP map by greebo and angua came to mind yesterday -- The Dead Gathers (always loved that name).

 

What ever became of it? Was it just a tech demo or abandoned or...? I remember it being quite cool with an old graveyard area and a descent into a huge tomb like the Bonehoard.

[The Dark Mod front page over the years]

I'm thinking it was Renzatic? Could be wrong.

[Is TDM a Game?]

What a silly debate. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/game?s=t

 

There is at least one game that exists mainly as rules. There's no unified story or hard ending, and it can go on and on, again and again, repeating in sessions for as long as the players choose. It uses a defined environment and actors that can be digital or physical, bought or made. Millions have played it for more than a thousand years. It's called Chess.

[Thief 4 is trash.]

Well either we wont get a Thief sequel or we will get fresh blood on a Thief sequel

 

http://kotaku.com/bi...real-1536315021

Wow, I definitely feel for those laid off (even if their game isn't my cup of tea).

 

Stop propping up giant wealthy publishing/production houses! They use you up and then show you the door.

[A new way of looking at Thief 4]

Last night I was inspired by all this Thiaf talk. I finally got around to installing my GOG version of Thief 2. My original install was cumbersome and corrupted, slower, needs the CD, changes resolution on the menus, etc etc. All the old hassles, because I haven't installed NewDark or other updates. Well, the GOG install, all patched up, went through without a hitch. Built-in FM loader? Well no shit. I've been away from the originals for too long. I started a new play-through of the OM, and it holds up, solid. I've got hundred of FMs with which to play catch-up.

 

I guess that's my new way of looking at Thiaf.

[Vote for Shadowcursed!]

Wow, that's pretty awesome. Grabbing that sample now. Good luck!

[A new way of looking at Thief 4]

If you don't favor a product, you should not endorse it, regardless of the size or reach of the opposition. There is wisdom in picking your battles, of course, but it's a responsibility of consumers and sentient beings to uphold standards.

[Thief 4 is trash.]

They decided it would be too silly for the Master Thief to be able to fall (no lie; it was said in an interview). I'm waiting for the day that we can play through a whole game just by pressing forward.