perilisk

After reading this article I immeditately started thinking about TDM (ok, to be fair I started thinking about Thief, but I'm not too hopeful about revolutionary gameplay advances in that series after the last outing) -- I'm not suggesting that it's actually worth the effort to implement something like a haptics interface right now, particularly when the mod isn't going to be ready for months and probably no one in the target audience actually owns one of these $200 controllers. But purely for the sake of speculation -- could it add to the gameplay in more than just a gimmicky fashion? Thief, for instance, was one of the first games to really make sound more than just an atmospheric effect -- listening to the sounds you made, and to NPC barks, was a critical gameplay mechanic. Random thoughts: * Could this be used to clearly and effectively manipulate (say, set down gently) and/or freely toss junk objects -- and flash/gas bombs -- instead of relying on a hardcoded trajectory? * Could you create a lockpicking mechanism where you can literally feel the tumblers inside a lock as if it was right in front of you? * Could it be used to finely control the power you put behind a bowstring draw? * Could it be used to feel your way across a dark passage, or tell whether a floor is carpet or marble by touch, or even just a get a good sense of whether you're up against something or not -- for example, could you "feel" a ledge or rope in front of you to know you're in the right position for mantling/climbing? * Could it be used to replace the frob effect, but without any sparkly HUD nonsense? Instead of having a button or item flash in front of you, could you just "feel" it in the world? * Along the same lines, could the touch effect be effective enough that you tell the difference between a loot item and a similar looking junk item in poor lighting, without relying on a magical loot glint or risking having to drop a junk object and make a sound? * Could you add wall climbing where you actually need to feel for grip points in the wall? (And would you want to? Implemented poorly, I could see it being obnoxious.) * Could you get a good sense of where you're grabbing a body, the better to drag it around like a stealthy Achilles? I haven't tried it out personally, and I don't have anything to go on concerning the accuracy or the technical limitations of the controller other than the article, but it sounds like using their haptics SDK could open up some exciting possibilities once TDM tech is basically stable and in the mission-editing phase, if there's an audience that actually has access to the controller (it could also theoretically increase the audience for TDM, given their game-locating software, but given the superficial similarities to a commercial property, I don't know if that's a good thing or not). The series that inspired TDM has always relied very heavily on touch and texture in its mechanics, without having any way other than graphics and sound for clueing the player in about the textures in question. This could really bridge that gap, and let designers make more challenging environments to compensate for improved player senses. Anyhow, thoughts? Next Big Thing? Cheesy gimmick?

My concern is that they overlap thematically, somewhat, with the IG, as I still to think of building and civilizing as Progress, much like invention. I suppose as long as it was emphasized that they oppose machinery -because- of its labor-saving aspects, they could still be strongly philosophically opposed to the Guild on more than just the question of intellectual freedom. I do see your second point (though I think it would motivate a great deal of their labor; sewers and aquaducts are basically sanitation projects). On the other hand, don't they tend to cloister themselves away in churches and monasteries? That's more evidence of a mindset that looks at the city as a very filthy and sinful place -- they have a strong interest in changing the city to suit their preferences, yes, but that doesn't mean they want to mingle with the unwashed masses when they don't have to.

Re: the infection discussion before, plus Thief lore (not TDM), plus faction discussion... Was I the only person who thought it was strange in Thief games that the faction that was rigidly orthodox was also the side associated with science and technological progress? It felt a little like trying to cram too many dichotomies on the same two factions (the pagans felt fairly coherent to me, ironically). Progress doesn't correspond to stasis, it's just a different sort of change from reactionary mystical environmentalism. What if the Builders were mainly associated with Hygiene (and thus, hate sex, things that might make you want to have sex like dancing or drinking or watching racy shows, and also have Positions on things like begging, spitting on the sidewalk, food preparation, animal handling, and improper waste disposal). Also rigidly dogmatic, because Unclean Thoughts lead to Unclean Behavior which leads to Uncleanliness, and Cleanliness is of course next to Godliness (perhaps slightly above it). On the other hand, despite being harsh and the antithesis of fun, they're also obsessed with A) public sanitation works like sewers, aqueducts, and drainage projects (hence, "Builder") and fight undead, werewolves, rats, vampires, and other plague-related critters, and thus aren't entirely bad. Anyway, the Hygiene philosophy, moreso than Tech, sort of fits their status as the dominant urban faction, dark age cities being places where lots of people are crammed together in ways that facilitate epidemics. As for the Inventor's Guild, if the Pagans are pulling the gameworld towards superstitious, tribalistic barbarism and woo (like The Hills Have Eyes meets The Wicker Man), and the Builders are despately trying to maintain the status quo and suppress all heresy, the Inventors should be pulling the game-world towards something more familiar to us, if via a different technological path. Call it the Pratchett effect. Thus, their motif should be more real-world enlightment. Locke, Smith, da Vinci, empirical science, deism, Clockmaker sybolism. Needless to say, given the general grittiness of the setting, they're the weakest faction. As a weak minority (and as inventors in a world without patent protection), they would tend toward secrecy, which would lead to any number of conspiracy theories from their enemies (ie, practically everyone). Due to their tendency towards thinking in terms of intricate machinations, subtle and complex, some of these theories are actually true. Thus, also some Illuminati/Stonemason vibes. So, sort of a hybrid of Keepers and Mechanists. On a purely unrelated note -- forget explaining zombies with technology. Can anyone tell me how firing a water arrow (Thief style or TDM style) into a bloodstain produces anything other than a big, bloody water puddle? And don't me started on how mind-boggling it is guards don't instantly freak out on noticing massive patches of moss growing in the middle of a castle. Once you get that drunk, I think you're technically passed out.