DeusXIncognita
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Posts posted by DeusXIncognita
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Those food items are probably not usable. [...]
Quite a few food items are eatable, but I think none of them are transportable in TDM, at least I can't remember them. For example big pieces of cheese, apples, carrots or turnips are things I regularly eat in missions - for the fun of it - and I think I never got them in the inventory.
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[Regarding Square Enix] [...]
Some of them didn't even understand what Thief was.
My Mind just crashed. Trying a reboot.
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If the usual levels in TDM would be larger, it might be interesting. The way it is, a reasonably trained thief should be able to sprint through most levels without much problems.
If it was used though, the guards, at least those in heavy uniforms, would have to be affected by it as well, and more than the player (since the thief usually doesn't wear chain or plate).
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Keep in mind too it's a game like Outcast where you run and hide for the entire game, you aren't able to fight back or use any kind of weapons at all. For some people, the scare and horror factor goes way up when the ability defined yourself is removed.
Did you mean Outlast? I know an Outcast, but its nothing like being horror or unarmed:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outcast_(video_game)
While Outlast seems to fit the bill:
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[...]
Likewise with Zombies. In TDM, you just sit in a shadow and wait for them to walk by, like an elite guard. In T1, when they get close, you move (and likely run), no matter how nice of a shadow you find yourself in.
[...]
I am not sure we played the same Thief 1. I never had a big problem hiding from zombies - if I wanted to. The big difference to human guards for me were a few things, but hideability was not among them:
-) They dropped, but were not entirely dead, they would rise again
-) They were slow and could easily be outmanouvered
-) Not really exactly bound to the enemy: You were allowed to kill them on expert. And since they were no humans, I did. They hindered me in exploring so much. I dropped them where I could, if I had a chance permanently.
What changed in TDM a bit was their vulnerabilities. They are hard to drop with a sword. After my first try I thought its not even possible. To me that really changed how to approach them, but they still had a comparable scarity
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I forgot to mention, renaming the darkmod.exe to " Wolf2MP.exe " and you get a healthy perf boost on AMD Gpu's.
I can only find a "TheDarkMod.exe" in the main directory, that is the one, right?
More performance is always welcome, and after all my Thief senses are tingling again.
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You might not be aware, but I'm actually the guy who makes the Unofficial Patch for Bloodlines and I had a lot of stress during these "patch wars" because the conservative fraction just stole my work and disabled stuff they didn't like. In the end I added the option to my patch to either install it as "basic patch" with bug fixes only or as "plus patch" with all the improved and restored lost content. Maybe this is another reason why I kind of overreact to people seemingly not willing to include major new features and would really suggest to make all people happy by adding options. It worked perfectly in case of Bloodlines, the patch wars are long forgotten and my patch is the unofficial standard because it includes both trains of though! I know it's more work, but it's probably much easier in TDM as you can add any options you want and I don't like the other alternative sometimes mentioned here e. g. "do it yourself" because this might split the community!
I was aware
The basic version still includes many restores and additions that some might not want as extra change. Thats what I mean with different approaches, where even the way the people think is different, in a way that one thing is too much a change for some, while it is no change for others.
The way I felt it, in TDM, the mapper is king+. I do not always like that.
There are inconsistencies, where I would really, really, really wish that outstanding parts are mentioned in a helptext. Like: Are vines usually climbable in this map? Are some pipes climbable... etc.
But on the other hand, that means, whatever the mapper wants to do with his map, he can be sure that the development of the mod will not change that.
If I can extinguish an oil lamp - and that wouldn't even need to be pinched, it could be turned down with a wheel stopping the fuel in some cases - it changes the way a map could be played. A path were I have to pass a lighted lamp, is suddenly cut in half for example, because half along the way, I just turn out the lamp - without a need to use a water arrow, thereby keeping my equipment for later. The rest of the way I can sneak, because its dark long enough at least. Not to mention that maybe the AI isn't set to light that lamp again, because the mapper "knew" there would be only the possibility to extinguish for example 5 lamps, and he wanted that those also stay unlit, if you use your equipment for them.
If i ever manage to get forward with my project, there probably will be some way to extinguish some torches or lamps without a water arrow. Because I think that would be useful. But it makes the way I have to think about maps different, if that is possible.
If someone later thought, it isn't realistic that a character can extinguish type X of a lamp, I really would like it to stay the same for my project, since I planned with that in mind.
Recommendations for mappers, and options, are something thats really helpful on the other hand.
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Abso frelling beautiful
The age still shows, but the difference is easily noticed.
That will be the time to replay it - AGAIN.The story and athmosphere of Deus Ex was, and still is, one of the best in a game. Since your decisions had impact, influenced what happened later in some ways, and you really had so many approaches - and if it was difficult, it was up to you to make it still work.Lethal - Non lethal - nearly entire pacifistic - it was your decision.And, really missed in many games: The realistic mode. One shot to the head, your (normal) enemies are dead. And you too. That really gets you thinking. But if you are good, you still can go in guns blazing.Don't want to fight a "boss"? Run away. Do your objective regardless.i have played that game so much that I can still say the intro, with few mistakes.Thanks for the hint, I am looking forward to another playthrough. -
This dicussion reminds me a lot of the Vampire Bloodlines fan patches.
In essence, as far as I saw, there were two main lines that tried to improve the main game:
One tried to stay as close to the developers Version as possible, while fixing bugs and keeping it playable.
The other additionally (to fixing bugs) dug through the files, included found conversation lines that were for some reason not used, included found items in the data, and as it grew rewards were shifted around, items changed location, some rewards were given on different points in the story line, items were reskinned, rewarded sooner, there were options to get a reward AND safe someone (where you had to choose before, although you didn't know), and such...
Between those two lines, at least it seemed that way, there was a big trench. Both had its merits, although to different kinds of players.
And I think the goal of both was to keep the original vision of the developers. One by keeping as close as possible to the delivered version, the other by including everything that the developers for some reason "missed" to include (the game was rushed to release), or which might enhance the feeling closer to the assumed vision of the developers.
Those are very different approaches, one reluctant to change, and one leaping to change.
Those same approaches clash again here, at least it looks to me like it.
Communication between those approaches is, to say the least, difficult.
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If it works that way, I think testers and mappers should definitly be able to see it.
More information = easier debugging and optimizing.
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Finally finished.
Needed the help of DarkRadiant though.
I love assassination missions, and this one had some high points, and a few low ones too, all in all it was worth it, but I think I like Ulysses 1 better.
I had to look up the location of the lady hostage (hostage location next to that dining area). I looked around slowly in that room. I once ran around in there with a light to see if there was something interesting.
I have no idea how, but everytime I missed the door to the other room, where the final (for me) hostage was. Even with noclip I missed that room. I found it finally in tdm, because of the trigger name I think, and I had a hard time seeing the door even as I knew it was there.
Also the location felt a bit forced after a while, every new spot screamed more of "lighted so you have nearly no room to move around, and many people come in here, so you have no peace"
Also, that knockouts against people you kill after that, count for the knockout limit was sad. I tried knocking out people first, and then killing them were no one noticed the blood, but I had to stop that after a short while because of the knockout limit. Not sure if thats fixable though.
What also nagged me a bit, but I don't think thats easy to fix, was that I couldn't let blood stains be, where the bloodstains of the dead builders were. I thought that would be a perfect spot to kill, but they got noticed.
Now the positive highlights :-) :
-) Killing people - quite some of them (I killed 9 I think? 8 Plague Masks and their leader?)
-) Killing people and staying undetected, with some tension and taking my time
-) People that are "easy" to kill (Once I found their motivation)
-) Wonderful environment, not small, not big, a bit cramped - seemed to fit the location
-) Custom conversations, a big plus
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Anyone else going to be upgrading?
Never change a running system.
Never play on patch day (for windows versions I make that at minimum release year)
Usually with a new windows something that worked before stops working, and I have yet to see a real feature of a new one that is really worth it.
I checked new features of the new windows 10, and there seems to be absolutly nothing thats makes it a bit worth changing.
To me there are two reasons for changing sometimes:
-) There are big security holes, that are not in new versions (usually because of lacking support fot that version)
-) Something new I like to try really requires the new version (happens with games sometimes)
I'll stick with Windows 7, thanks.
Every small TDM update has more significant new useful things than the jump to the third next windows, as far as I can see at the moment.
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Since I have a broken safegame in nearly all missions, I use a "fix" to always have a backup safe handy when it happens.
I describe it here:
http://forums.thedarkmod.com/topic/17052-tdm-203-crashes-on-f4-save/?do=findComment&comment=368580
It requires a small bit of work and then always works without the player having to do anything additional.
After you safe twice in a mission you have a backup safe when something comes up.
The solution is not from me, I found it here in the forum but could not locate it again to credit the original author.
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If a body is blocking the doorway, the AI gets stuck.
[...]
I dunno how this could be stopped. Perhaps the AI should give up doing something after a while?
Better would be the action of the AI starts to ignore things. While the AI giving up is probably easier to do, usually the player is responsible somehow when such things occur. And that shouldn't be "rewarded". A door that should be closed for example, should close.
Then again, the cases were it would be helpful for the player and he wouldn't have already had a possibility for what he wanted are probably few, might be that ignoring just does the job.
I just have to think of the cases I did myself, of using gameplay techniques to trick AIs (in several games), that shouldn't have worked (like stapling boxes around entrances to stop them, and them walking mindlessly against them, using carried boxes as shield against visual contact and the like).
Those are always a bit weird to me, thus my initial instinct of not having AI stopped of doing something by things the player leaves in the world, when in reality that would be no issue for them.
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Are you using the latest TDM version, 2.03? We had a problem with breaking glass in 2.02 and before: If you tried to reload the game while broken glass is still falling or lying round, it could crash.
I guess its the same problem I had, with the game breaking with just that generator under the stairs (others were destroyed fine). Version of my game is TM 2.03.
No loading necessary for the error.
(Maybe it pushes some glass into the stairs and thats the problem?)
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It's adjustable using the "size" spawnarg. Personally I think keys should be a bit less easy to steal than they are -- the CM is half the size of the AI that's carrying the key! -- but I won't start a campaign about it
It might be helpful to be a bit more consistent though.
I was often thinking why it seems easier to steal a key than a purse, much easier, and that is the answer it seems.
(I don't think one would hang a key so loose to ones belt that it can easily be taken, cause then its easy to accidentally loose too, so it should be similar in difficulty with purses, I think)
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@dem, I have one more question, how should I execute my map for testing? Look, I've read Wiki, but it's not obvious for me:
But,
There is not any maps folder in TDM/. I unpacked the startmap following its manual page to TDM/ so it's something like TDM/startmap/maps/startmap.map
So what should I type in console? The Wiki manual looks a bit outdated.
It is a bit outdated I fear, but it should work.
For a first try you can just make the "maps" folder, and put your own folder inside there. Or also the startmap folder.
I think that would work, maybe you'd have to change some settings in DarkRadiant first (not sure)
to execute for testing you would then have to type:
dmap ownmapfolder/ownmapname (or startmap/startmap for example)
after its finished go to the console again and type
map ownmapfolder/ownmapname (easily done by pressing up, bringing the last command up, then pos1 and then del (deleting the first letter))
For another approach look at that post:
(Material file not necessary in your case i think, the others should be necessary.)
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And who has the right to feel let down, and feels like he's obliged to buy the game if he doesn't feel like the dev's delivered what was promised? Don't get the general attitude. If you're so p***ed off about it, don't buy it. As simple as that.
Not as simple for many.
Many people do a lot of emotional investment in something they look forward to. When that thing is a lot of time away, that piles up.
Then comes a disappointment, which is natural if you thought you get more than you actually get, and especially if you had a reason to believe you get more.
And with all the disappointment there is still the thing you were looking forward to, not as good as you hoped, but probably good enough that you take it - or maybe you are just so invested already, that you have to take it, no matter what (there is a psychological effect at work there).
With all the disappointment comes anger.
Which with the net today is easily vented.
I think the right to feel let down is earned when a company promises something, generates interest and publicity with it, and then doesn't deliver.
Especially when the company tries to "smuggle" in the change without saying anything, or isn't completely honest about it.
There is a big difference between (for examples): "That was always intended that way, and we never said different" and "Sorry, we tried, we didn't see a way to do it on time and budget, and decided to cut it, because doing everything like that would have been too much work. [Added Bonus for: Here is an optional patch that implements what we had completed so far]"
While I never was that invested in graphics, I can easily understand anger about things that were more or less promised, but didn't come to be.
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Even more, it looks strange when a character sees that a candle or a torch is off, says 'I don't want to lit this myself' and keeps going in full darkness!
Couldn't they script them somehow... Yeah, I saw them litting candles, it's terrific, but it's not safe: you can just remove a candle from its position, and put it at some dark corner, and no one will search for it to lit again.
Well, shall we go further -- if someone wished to find a missing candle but it's damn dark everywhere, what could he do? Maybe he'd get a torch from a wall or a lantern and search for candle. I didn't notice them litting torches again, only candles. Maybe I've played too little yet. Well, what if I put their torch off right in their hands? They should lit it again... Isn't it implemented? I haven't noticed yet.
And if it's dark where he goes and no candle he can find, and no torch he can get from a wall and no lantern on a table neraby, what then? Why do they go their way in complete darkness, as if they were cats or something? It's not natural.
I bet this could be done, but it could get very complicated for mappers.
The approach at the moment gives a lot of control to the mapper, you can implement immovable light sources, and tell the AI to always relight critical lights, or you let the player take all of them out, as you desire.
Torches can be relit, if they are not too high, and that happens a lot if the AI is set up this way.
Torches in the hand get droped usually I think, because the AI goes on alert when the torch is put out, but I don't have much experience with that to know how exactly it works.
While I am sometimes amused by the patrolling guards in the complete dark, the question is always how a solution would be done.
For example, what takes priority, guarding an important door, or finding light again? (Best for the mapper to decide if done I think, but makes it harder to script it all).
Also there could be lights tagged as "takeable", might be with a "return" trigger, so that the light is only used to light other lights again and then brought back. There could also be areas or objects tagged as "here are lights", were guards could supply themselfes with another light.
Or guards might be tagged as "relight alerter" that prompts others ("lighters") that are around to relight the light source (e.g. servants) while they continue their patrol.
But all that would be quite a lot to code I think. Also it couldn't be standard behaviour, as it is usual here not to break previous maps (meaning they should function as intended by the author).
Regarding a body model:
I like to see my body when looking down, always have, has a nice feeling.
But that said, I have yet to see a first person game where a real body model is used, and it really works all together.
There are nice tries, and mostly irritable failures, but nothing (that I have seen yet) that really works.
Thief 3's is one of the problematic ones, as it was nice to look at, but made moving around quite hard, leaning let you fall off of things and ohters.
The core, I think, is: a Body model would have to "know" what you are intending to do, to look right. (Otherwise you have, for example, the same "jump" anmiation if you jump on a small crate or try to climb a large wall. With one of it, it would look silly.
Many games nowadays take that approach, in that your input is first processed, and then the games decides what you "wanted to do". And what the game thinks is often wrong.
I like a game that does what I say, and does not interpret my commands. Less problems with the game breaking because something was not thought of (and mappers can think of lot of things).
So at the moment I don't think a body model would be anything worth investing time and effort into.
At least I know I wouldn't try to do it, and as said I like it if I see my body in a first person game.
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To me that looks really useful - the sudden centering and distance changing might take some getting used to though.
I think with learning it shouldn't be too bad though.
One thing, that hasn't been used in any Fan Mission so far I think, were it could be a bit problematic, would be a "labyrinth" like in the turorial, were you have to navigate something through. If you want to do it silently that is of course. With choosing the right frob distance, it should be at maximum a really minimal difficulty though.
Whats also nice with the shown approach is, that we could hold a light source to the right or left of the screen, and have the center free for looking.
Additional bonus :-)
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That seems needlessly complex to me. Why not have the object stay where it is when you frob it, and go to the center of your screen (and snap to 1/12th) the first time you either scroll the mousewheel or rotate it? There's no particular reason for it to be in the center of your screen unless you're going to manipulate it somehow, [...]
Transport is more consistent when it is in the center of the screen, true most of the times when I transport something I also manipulate distance and rotation, but not always. In those cases there would be extra buttons to press.
But for all other circumstances having it stay where it is (relatd to the screen) might actually feel better, can't imagine it at the moment.
I just thought the distance in 12ths maybe has another reason besides faster distance changing, and then it would be good to keep that, but if not keeping the starting distance longer is fine.
I like demagogue's idea. Let the item stay where it is after frobbing, and slowly move it towards the center when the player starts turning. Regarding the distance, the object should stay exactly at the distance it is when frobbed, as everything else doesn't make sense.
If the intention is, that the item "moves" towards the center when you turn, in a way that the item just stays where it is, when you turn into a direction where it still needs to be centered in, until its centered, then that would be a good solution too.
(If item is off center to the left, when you turn left it stays at the same place in the room until it is centered horizontally on the screen)
Not sure about the coding necessary though.
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One possibilty just coming to my mind is the following:
When you pick something up and hold the button, the object stays at the original point of pickup and distance.
Also the center of the creen is marked slightly, as long as the pickup button is pressed (and something is in the hands maybe?).
When you release the button, the object is snapped to the next 12th and to the center of the screen.
Mousewheeling while having the button pressed first snaps to the next or previous 12th, then works normal from there.
(I use the mousewheel btw, but of course can't speak for everybody.
Noone can. You can only find out if there are people out there that don't use it, but never if all use it, since there are quite a few silent ones usually.)
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Thank you.
Strange the savegame opens for me. I am running TDM 2.03 on Linux.
How about this savegame: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10099866/complete_.save.zip
Not working either, but I would guess it could be because Linux saves might be incompatible with Windows TDM?
Just a guess, I don't know about that, but I don't think its far fetched.
I am running TDM 2.03 too, so that shouldn't be it.
Maybe someone in the know can confirm it, or someone with Linux just takes a look, from what I have seen there are quite a few people playing on Linux around.
(Although not using it, I think its great that it works with it.)
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Probably no-one will read my post, but I am sort of stuck. I have been playing BotF on Hard (no killing) and I am on the pier with Terry, all mission objectives complete. I have enough loot, I haven't killed anyone apart from 2 spiders in the sewers. I have knocked out a few guys with the BJ and one guard with the gas arrow. Still he won't let me finish the mission. Have I done anything wrong? Help? Suggestions?
The savegame is here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10099866/Quicksave.save.zip
I tried looking it up, but whenever I try to load the inserted savegame, Darkmod hangs up immediatly (loading status doesn't move once).
I hope someone else can load it.
TDM 2.05 official introductory missions
in Fan Missions
Posted
Ran through the reworked mission today. Was fine, although a few issues I had with St. Lucia still persist. But being able to pick up things without alerting everyone definitly helped in the experience.
I searched the sewers a few times but couldn't find any moors. Any hint to where they should show up?