Durad
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Posts posted by Durad
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That confuses me so maybe I'm not getting your meaning.
To me it sounds like:
I'm not interested to help with TDM because it's a rip-off. No I'd rather FULLY rip-off redo Thief because it was so perfect, and yet I want to improve upon it because it wasn't good enough.
Ironically I don't like the serious quality FM's but rather like the goofy non-thief like ones better. (I can't recall 'A Mother's Love' personally so I am not sure how that is fun/goofy) because serious ones can't outdo thief so I like the ones that have no chance better.
No, I am not saying that TDM is a rip-off. I am saying that rather than me build a level based on Thief (ei, what I would create would be a rip-off), I would rather work toward preserving Thief. And yes, just because I love Thief does not mean that I think it is perfect. I would nonetheless though want it in its original form as well, thus the purist version FIRST. A Mother's Love was a mission where you could summon tons of creatures in an arena and fight them/make them fight each other. It was happy-go-slashy fun.
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Ok everyone, I just wanted to say that I am sorry if my proposal has caused any trouble. I have been speaking (well...PMing) with one of the team members, and he has convinced me not to pursue the project anymore. It is a disappointment for me, but I think that it is for the better.
@Durad
OK, I can see you're driven with this idea and you have some people you know who want to help out and have mod experience. Please consider though - that you're kind of... making problems for yourself by wanting to recreate a game... If you spent 3 or 4 years on it, do you think it would be worth it, in the end? If you spent that time and energy on The Dark Mod as it now stands, you could have created a brand new campaign... Not bound by Garrett and the Trickster and the Keepers. You could make your own character, have him plundering new tombs and strange, Pagan horrors, scaling Necromancers' towers and picking his way through the ruins of the Plague Quarter...
We've all played Return to the Haunted Cathedral a dozen times...
Wouldn't you like to be making something from your own imagination rather than living in the past?
Think of all the mods like Arx: End of Sun that could really use some help as well... TDM gives you the freedom to make your own characters, factions, enemies and locations, even your own history and mythology in the Empire...
Just want you and your guys to think about that. =-/
Would it be worth it? In a word, yes. We were going to start with a purist version (ei, as close to Thief 2 as possible), and then with that base, we were going to work on an improved version that would have had many of the things that we have always wanted to see in a Thief game (such as the ability for a mapper to plot "emergency plans" for the AI to follow (for instance, an alarm is sounded, an assigned group of guards search all the rooms in the building they were scripted to, as all civilians make their way (escorted by the remaining guards) to a chosen "safe-room", which would then be locked and have all entrances guarded by the guards who just escorted them. After the building was searched and no threats were found, a certain amount of the patrolling guards would be stationed at the building's entrance on high-alert, and things would otherwise go back to normal. It would be very scripting intensive for the mapper, but could be worth it for large, heavily guarded manors and complexes with advanced security. That was something that my sis was going to try to make work (and when my sis tries to make something work, it always happens
).), torch bearing AI, Shields, Pole-arms, improved combat, etc, etc. Honestly, I am not nearly as interested in creating a rip-off storyline in a rip-off world of the Thief world. I would much rather preserve and improve Thief. Yes, I like fan-missions, but usually the fun goofy ones (like A Mother's Love...my fav), not the intense story-line driven ones. When it comes to them, Thief has never been out-done.
That said, I have my own ideas for a great stealth game that I would love to make (honestly, with a few modifications, I think it would make a perfect Thief 4), but the problem is that my team is not interested in helping me with it. The thing we have in common is a love of Thief, other than that, we all have our own ideas about our own games.
I work a full time job, and don't have nearly as much time as I used to to mod. I probably could not put the time into a mod with a different team in order to keep it together. Anyway, I have decided to cancel the project, so it does not matter now. I have mods on other games that have been in a state of stasis for months now that I have to continue.
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While waiting for a reply that will probably never come, how about contributing something for mappers, like some models or sounds.
Like dis: http://modetwo.net/d...nosslaks-stuff/
I actually don't know how to model. I have worked closely with some very good modelers (like Meliteros from the totalwar.org), but I cannot model to save my life. I am a pretty decent skinner though. If we are given the green light, everything we use on the project will be available for the community to use. Otherwise, I have other mods on other games that I will probably go back to working on.
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The less he writes to them, the better. And anyway, the worst that can happen is a C&D by Squenix followed by prompt response from the community, "pressuring" Eidos Montreal who will, after a long and arduous battle (read: one email to their legal department) be touted as saviours of the spirit of Thief by giving TDM their blessing.
In conclusion, who cares. It's likely Durad will not even manage to get through all the editing wiki before giving up.
I sent them another email especially for Briareos.
Hello, and sorry for sending a second email. I posted that I contacted you on the Dark Mod forums and some concerns were raised by some of the members. I would just like to clear them up so there is no confusion. Myself and the people who want to make this mod with me are not working with and have no relation to the Dark Mod team. They are very strict about making sure all modders using their mod are aware of copyright issues and do not violate Eidos's copyright.The project is the idea of myself and some other modders (none of whom are on the Dark Mod team), and hinges on obtaining permission from you to continue.
I apologize if I did not make that clear in the first email,
***** ****
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It might not hurt, depending on how you worded your first email to Eidos, to send a follow-up to Eidos specifically saying that not only is this your own project not associated with the Dark Mod team in any way, but the Dark Mod team itself actually advised you to "please not" use the Dark Mod to violate Eidos's copyright in any way, and advised you that it has a strict, absolute policy of no copyright violations. (... which we are advising and we do have.)
It's understandable that you didn't think about it ahead of time. The TDM has just gone to such lengths to avoid anything even remotely a copyright issue, down to the actual textures and sounds, and it just has to make its absolute stance clear as an official matter.
But you asking in your personal capacity is your own responsibility, of course, once that's cleared up. Maybe they'll give you a personal license, who knows; but considering Thief4 is right on the horizon I think the chances are next to nil (think what a license to use Hammerites means when there may be Hammerites in T4). Then you have to be even more careful because then they've already said no and now are on notice and watching.
Of course all of this is mostly about if you want to distribute the thing. If you're just talking about making a map that will always just stay on your harddrive, for you to play around personally with, that's not distributing. But that's a lot of work just for yourself.
BTW, why not make "inspired" maps that refer to classic maps but don't take anything copyrightable? Not only less a copyright issue, but possibly more fun for fans since it's new territory, but they'll catch the homages.
Very well, I will send a follow up email to make that clear to them, and then I will post what I sent them here.
Actually, we had planned (most of the people I have talked to about this are in my immediate or close family) to keep it 'in-house' and not distribute it, but then we thought, why not let other people enjoy it if we can?
If we do not get the permission, we will probably still develop it and keep it in-house. (though we may try to get a modeller involved as that is the weak spot of the team, and there are a lot of complicated models that need to be made)
When we were first talking about this, we estimated that it would take about 3 years to make (we all work full-time jobs), but honestly, after looking some stuff over I am thinking it would probably be closer to 4.
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Maybe you should try creating a single small (legal) mission for TDM before you start panning grandiose projects that require huge amounts of animating, vocal recording, video editing and modelling, on top of normal mapping tasks. I'm not sure you have any idea of the amount of work you're talking about taking on, even if you were to get permission to go ahead (which will never happen).
I do realize. I have modded many games before, including doing TCs. I know how hard it is to learn a new engine, and I know how much goes into that. (I have been a skinner, score-composer, sound designer, 2-d art designer, tester, concept artist, and team leader on mod teams before) I am not saying I am great, or that I would do a really good job at it, but I do have an idea of the scope, and I am well aware that many more things always need to be done than what you plan for. The good thing is that the core of the people who would be working on it are my brothers and sisters (all passionate Thief fans). (My sister has been a contract programmer for an insurance firm for a few years, and has spent the last 5 years working full time as a programmer for a clinic, and is also an avid modder and gamer. She is the one who would be doing the coding.)
We may succeed or we may crash and burn, but if we get the right permissions, I would sure love to give it a try.
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The source code of The Dark Mod is under a free license - you can do whatever you want with it as long as you obey this license. Parts of the source are licensed under a different license from id software, tho, so you need to obey their license, too.
The art assets are under a different license, and you must obey this license, too.
(Sorry, I can't tell you the exact licenses atm, but it is AFAIK Creative Commons for source and art, and id license for id portions of the code. The LICENSE file in each TDM installation lists them for you.)
Otherwise, you are free to do what you want. Personally, however, I do not want to have TDM associated with the original games even more - it is already bad enough that almost every news about TDM starts wrongly with "recreates Thief in D3". TDM is not Thief. It is The Dark Mod.
I understand that, but if we did this, it would only be one of the many mission packs available for the Dark Mod. Honestly, I am a Thief fanatic and would love to build an engine from scratch and remake Thief 2, but neither I nor anyone has the time or resources to do that. Therefore, if I was too get permission and make a mod recreating Thief 2 with better graphics, etc., I would need a similar enough base. Honestly, Thievery just would not work, whereas the Dark Mod already has so much work put into it that it would be a perfect choice if I did such a project.
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If you had asked us about approaching Eidos, I'm pretty sure the team would have said, "please don't".
Well, I apologize for that then. I thought the mod was something that someone could make any mission they wanted on. I had planned to ask your team for permission if Eidos gave us permission. I was not aware that I did it backwards. I apologize, however I did make it clear to Eidos that I was not part of the Dark Mod team and did not give them any reason to believe that I was working in conjunction with you guys.
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You will not receive a permission, if you receive a response at all. I can tell that much even if I am not Eidos. It is also not a project the TDM team could support, or be associated with.
I understand that, but you would let us use your mod to build it on if we got permission, wouldn't you? You are probably right that we will not get permission, but it won't hurt anything to try. When my old XP laptop bites the dust (it is 5 1/2 years old), I don't want to be faced with the prospect of never playing Thief 2 again. I want to go back to making Thief missions, so even if I do not get permission, I may make a different project (unrelated to Thief) on the Darkmod instead. Either way, I will let you know what they tell me.
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Ok, well I've contacted Eidos to ask their permission to remake Thief: TMA on the Dark Mod...it cannot hurt, right? My team and I (we mostly do M&B and Total War mods) are all avid Thief fans and most of us used to create Thief fan missions, and this is something we have been talking about for a while. Hopefully we will get permission for it. In the meanwhile I sent our coder the link to this site so she can examine the code to TDM and start making a new build specifically for this project...just in case...
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Ah, thanks.
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It is illegal to recreate original Thief levels in another engine. It's actually illegal to port Thief 1 levels into Thief 2. You're asking about porting original Thief levels into a competing companies game engine. Think about the consequences of doing that.
Oh, thanks.
That really sucks...lol You'd think that after all this time they would either let people use the source code to allow Thief 2 to run on modern computers, or they would do it themselves.
How can it be though that you cannot create a burrick on the Dark Mod, yet people can make entire Lord of the Rings modifications for Total War and Battlefield games? That doesn't make much sense. Is it just that the people at Eidios are being arseholes Nazis about enforcing it?
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Bingo.
So, is it illegal to make one or distribute one? Also, what exactly is it that is copyrighted/trademarked? The name?
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Hey all, I was wondering, is anyone trying to recreate Thief 1 or 2 on TDM? I ask because none of my newer computers can run the first Thiefs, and pretty soon my ancient laptop is gonna die (and with it my ability to play my favorite games). If no one is working on it, why? The complexity? Are there copyright issues?
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It would be nice to know what specific problems you're noticing, rather than just "not as good as X."
I am sorry, I cannot tell what specific degrees the angles are off by or something, but it looks very stiff and very unnatural. It does not look like a natural way that someone would fight (and yes, I know about fighting).
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Hey all,
I am a diehard Thief fan, and have been watching the progress of this mod. First of all, I just want to say that if I were the people making Thief 4, I would definately hire you guys! I honestly think that with a little professional help to polish it up that you could make the next Thief game - one that would not only be deserving of the first two, but possibly even better. You got that Thiefy atmosphere down sooo well.
That said though, I do have one big complaint. Please do not take this the wrong way, but the fighting animations seem below par. They seem to distract from the atmosphere and make it very difficult to fight. I am also a Mount and Blade fan (I am known there as Vuk). The animations that they had were not perfect, but they were good (as were the Thief one and two animations). Maybe you should consider redoing them in an update.
Please don't take it the wrong way, I think this is the best thing that has happened to the Thief community since Thief II. Keep up the good work!
Durad
Thief TDP and Thief TMA
in The Dark Mod
Posted
In all honestly, I prefer the old way of texturing in most cases. I say this because nearly every game out there always takes the bump mapping to an extreme. No offense to TDM (which in MHO looks nicer than a lot of professional games), but I notice a lot of the textures I see from the screenies take the bump-mapping way too far. (like this one for instance http://www.mindplaces.com/darkmod/bonehoard_1.jpg)
Honestly, I think that many times a much more realistic look can be achieved by simply painting on the details and lighting effects. I am not saying that bump-mapping does not have its place, but I think that some of it just has to be done on the textures, and that the bump-mapping should be kept subtle.
No offense to anyone...just my 2 cents...