fllood
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Posts posted by fllood
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You dromed' too?
I think the components did it deliberately...
psst... this had been a Trojan we sent to get you to DR
I'm still a huge pro-Thief man, but it's DR and this community that got me attracted to start learning to build ...
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Good to see a new dromEd'er join ranks.
Are there FMs you did release for T2/T3?
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Plus a flag : 'completed' (and maybe 'update availlable' ?)
A green check mark already flag completed FMs.
But indeed, any sorting possibility would be a fine improvement in usability. Specially for "Author name" and "Completed". If the players sort setting would persist between TDM sessions it would even be more splendid!!
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Higher-than-average fm abandonent rate. What is the standard you compare it to?
I do compare to Thief FM's. It is a very personal impression as said. I may be wrong.
Anyway do you come up with other reasons why people give up their work apart the ususal ones (found in every mod community)? Reasons that ties with TDM/DR itself? Like nbohr1mores thoughts about VPs?!
And IF so, is there something that can be done about it to see less FM abandoned because of that reasons?
I think it might be over ambition in the main, which then leads to frustration or drains so much time it becomes unmanageable.
yes, that is a major reason indeed!
Make a simple 4-5 room heist.
That some people claim again and again "oh just another room heist seen hundred times in Thief FMs" or that they won't play TDM for the lack of some "huge abitious killer missions" (see "ttlg stuck in the past" thread among others) won't motivate some new mappers doing a simple room heist or something resaonable ambitioned like Melan's latest FM speed build. Personally the one FM I do replay most is Too Late. So it will not detain myself...
[edit: ah I'm with MD about Too Late]
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If you take a short glance through the "what are you working on right now" and "newbie questions" threads it feels that more than a hundred people started a map but only twentyfive authors did release FM's so far - so there must be lot of abandoned assets. even if only parts worth reusabele as prefabs it would be a benefit to TDM as there is always some good share of intersting brushwork, ideas and experiments lost when people give up and vanish.
It is not unusual that people start building with much enthusism and sooner or later lack skill, time or loose interest. But it feels to me it is higher-than-average in TDM that folks give up their mapping ideas. Do you have the same impresssion?
What do you think are the reasons (beside time and fading interest) that so many people did abandon working on a map in TDM??
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*lol* ... That's what I like to see in a playable map!!
Terrific work MD
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Anyone taking over an abandoned FM must upload his work say monthly to a private website run by a few volunteers. If he does not submit within two months without explanation then it is regarded as abandoned again and the latest work is made available again.
That would be a really good and maintainable approach to avoid "abandoned FMs in work" being lost as well as motivate people who hesitate to take over because not knowing if their time permit to finish them. Even if someone who adops an FM run out of time or motivation the additional work won't be lost. Like a chain project the FM eventually will be released to the community that way.
It would be practicable enough if the abandoned FM's would be archived on a non-public TDM server and an list for abandoned maps added to the wiki with a link to a brief readme file which tell the rough setting, intended story and the build done so far. This should be added by an entry either "open for adoption" or the authors name who adopted FM with a due date he or she has to send the updates assets of the FM and any documentation ( unsolved issues, story details, etc.) to the volunteer managing the abandoned FM's.
So in praxis any author getting stuck, dismotivated or don't have the time to work anymore on a FM hopefully send his work to the volunteer managing the abandoned FM's. Then any request to take over must be send to this volunteer as well. He then send the FM with any documentation and asset files to the new author and do update the wiki with author name and due date. Before the due date the author MUST send all updates uncalled to the person managing the abandoned FM's. If not the volunteer set the FM again to "open for adoption" and the most current version is still archived. (Only) the volunteer and the TDM team have always access to the abandoned FM's on the TDM server. This would also make sure if the volunteer should "disappear" one day anyone can step in for the role without any assets lost. And TDM team haven't to cope with all that abandoned FM workload!
Would be a pity if abandoned great work would get lost...
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Excellent Melan ... thank you for this awesome mapping diary!!
looking forward to jump my taffers feed into the Fauchard Street ...
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ohh... so pepole like me propably won't able to run your FM well, what a pity
Athlon Dual Core 4200+ 2200Mhz, Geforce 8800 GT 512MB, 2 GB PC3200 RAM, Win XP
(Return to the City V2 did run smooth on this spec)
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my opinion: don't change the fact that a client is coming, but insert an audio file of the player: "Maybe I should clean up this mess until the next client comes"
This would help a lot!
... and a blue line on the floor to the next objective?
... a glint over the hidden loot?
... or a big red arrow over the secret doors??
Please DON'T!
... never take away from players to deal with unexpected situation as they like to do and see fit.
my opinion: put the player in more of such gameplay situations like with the bookstore customer!!
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Had the time to play this little gem last night.
Wou... this is it! What a fun and well build mission Sotha!!
I'm playing chronologically through the Thomas Porter series (so only Mandrasola left to enjoy) and it's great to see that every of your FM did progress and evolve better and better regards level design, storytelling, gameplay as well as always adding new things and more sophisticated building techniques to always surprise us. It's great to see how you dig more and more tricks Sotha and push what can be done with TDM
My rating: 5/4/4 ... making it to the bunch of my most enjoyed FM's so far.
Here are my detailed impressions:
Gameplay:
Near Perfect.
The Transaction gave me no minute of bordom but lot of "WOU". I applaud the design decisions you did knowing you won't please all. The many different objectives. The story-driven turns that took place. I like a good balance of taffing exploraton and tense story-driven moments. Both of that gameplay elements is perfectly balanced in this mission.
At the same time The Transaction is fantastically story-driven it is very non linear as well. I liked how the player is free to choose what he want to do next. Apart of the last objective you haven't to trigger event A before event B is triggered. To design the gamplay without any feel of segmetion is an great archivement Sotha!
For example I didn't go straight to the bookshop. I decided to explore the city first ("good to know the streets if there would be the need to a quick escape"), then to have a visit at the builders church ("that book is about necromancy. hhhmm?! well, better to fetch the holy water") before fetching my payment for the book ("so now I'm prepared in case that Grenefeld isn't just a bookseller and awaits me with evil plans instead of gold."). Other players choose differet routes. The FM is designed that all will work!
In combination with the balance of gameplay elements, that's Near Pefect.
With story-driven gameplay events you can't always compromise and sometimes must make decisions. Some people will love the tension created other will feel restricted. That's always a trade off. But I think always one worth the risk and results. A FM taking a risk is always good. And for example even I hate fighting in TDM & Thief I really loved the tension of the forced (fair) fight in The Transaction.
I also applaud to the decision when the female customer comes to the bookstore after the fight with the Lich and resulting city-watch tension if the player didn't took take hiding poor Grenefeld and the tracks. Things that brings the player in an unexpectd situation free to react as he/she see fit make gameplay situations and this FM deep so immersive.
One or two small rooms to get into right and left the streets as well as some added use of vertical gameplay (an attic to enter on a rope arrow?! a portcully to lift and a pipe to climb down for get some coins?!) would have been totally perfect ,-)
also worth mentioning: no perfomance issues on my low end machine.
Visuals:
Loved the camera ride how the mission starts (even better than Knighton Manor). The indoor visuals aren't fancy but aren't bad either. They fit the gameplay, atmosphere and immersion. That's all I need. The bookstore was generic. But I liked the simplicity of the dusty abandoned house & the small church, the puddles + flooded house entries and I loved the detailed builders torture room! I noticed some more patches and details than in fomer missions. But even you put gameplay + speed building over time-consuming fancy up visual detail work (good!) the scenes, city, models, textures, architecture, lightning, etcetera... feel all of a piece and having much atmosphere in The Transaction. someting round house edges or weeds at every quoin won't do without being sum of these parts ...
What I really like in your FMs Sotha is the overall outdoor coloring. Knighton & Transaction feels different than the other authors outdoor FM's: less specular, warmer, more colorful... like you have paint it with pastell colors!
All in all for me visually the best Thomas Porter mission so far. Excellent.
Note: In all former Thomas Porter missions ambient_world had been to high for my personal taste. I like the shadows to be dark. I played the updated version of The Transaction with ambient_world revised to 6. This feels much better!
Another Note: on my PC the sound outdoors is much louder in the city streets than in buildings. I had to adjust the audio sliders every time moving in/out of an building. maybe you like to check the sound speaker settings.
Story
Loved the new objectives and all the surprises. The unexpected so much great torture scene. the return of the Lich Queen. the surprising final twist when all objectives have be done and Thomas (don't) get his well deserved rest
.. Like other players I did expect some zombies along the story ("an Objective to get holy water? haha... ok, zombie rush ahead."). Setting up ususal expectations that don't happen isn't only a good film script trick you used here for good Thanks for the voices BA, Ocn & BD. That added a lot to this FM! And of course Bravo Sotha to all the story cut scenes! I specially liked the cutscene detail where the Lich Hag sucks the souls of poor Grenefeld. And special notice to when the player is thrown back after releasing from the freeze (instead of just simply keep the player where he is).
All that being Excellent.
Can't wait for a final confrontation !!
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I'm with the list of things Sotha said.
I want to add another reason which really bugs me with decorative doors with handles:
I'm supposed to be a Thief!! I approach a door because I want to open that door, enter and explore. Why else should I go and check?! ... so when I made my way to a door and it isn't operable I always think "why the heck are my lockpicks not good enough to open THAT one door" ... that breaks realism for me. ...
To keep immersion on decorative doors with pro-handles there should be at least an audio/visual clue why it can't be opened or why I wouldn't bother entering. Something like "the lock is too hard to pick" or "a carpenter live here not worth checking" or similar. But then again a "too hard to pick" message would suggest that there might be a key and gameplay behind a door. Also brings up the question "I can pick a lock of a tresor but not even a simple street door???". And a note "not worth checking" brings me back to "why my character even did I bother going here??". ...
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Not idealistic, passionate!
yeah... indeed both of that
@nbohr
good thoughts
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lol @ "Taffer rating"
I like the sounds... very dark story?!
... thanks for the teaser!
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You have to face it, we are clinging to TDM and putting our lives on the line for it, because we
TDM, not because we want to be popular. We hope we will be, but if we won't, well, though luck, we'll stay here, anyway.For that spirit I love TDM & it's archivements and have huge respect for each one in Team & Supporting keeping that idealistic mindset
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Thanks for the link Melan, really interesting read!
If T4 will be a failure too, both ttlg and tdm community are going to be as dead as a dodo.
;-) I read the same doomsday thoughts back in the days of T3 on ttlg
Don't worry, as long as enough people love, play and map for a game associated communities will exist regardless of their bodycount. Naturally both a T4 success or failure will have some impact to T2 FM's. And failure probably raise interest for TDM because if that happens TDM will be the only true stealth game with a (comparatively) modern engine existing.
Hm.. Is it casual gaming then?
One major difference to the "golden age" of TTLG games also is the huge impact of the internet since. It made live much more fast paced and did shorten the attention span of new generation gamers a lot with the next entertainment fix just one mouse-click away (also true for things outside gaming) ...
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I believe TDM's reception has been damaged by the smear campaigns run by a few posters over there, but also because of the (mostly incorrect) perception that TDM fans wish to "do away with old outdated Thief". Which is foolish, because technical issues aside, creative expression is creative expression no matter where it manifests. But if people perceive you are attacking their source of fun, they will rightfully consider you an asshole....
The TDM presence on TTLG is almost certainly beneficial, though...
This is my impression as well.
To be frank all that Thief versus TDM grow weary. and certainly won't rise a positive attitude.
As it is all pro/con ttlg talk.
To each his own. Communities always have a mixed bag of people, opinions, preferences ...
This hobby is about having fun, not to proselytize
Posting on ttlg (and any other place) let people know what's up with TDM and it's FM's. And that's good! don't expect much response there though - people catching up and really do like TDM will register and feeback at this forum. and this make sense. why should they do on ttlg?
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cool Bikerdude! thanks.
and an example it's not only about high-res that do create visual atmosphere. even on a typical FPS MP gameplay map.
yep world ambient should be lower.
a solid 50-60 FPS on my four years old rig.
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I'm going to ask her about the Dark Mod and what she thinks. I do think having someone to talk to about it, another woman, might help.
That's cool brokenArts, thanks! please keep us updated...
You know, all the female taffers that make FM's rock.
yaeh, definitively!!
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there was a short lived TV series called The Kindred, same clans, etc. I liked the show too.
Funny you mention that short-lived series as I just watched the DVD last week
For a Aaron Spelling production (Beverly Hills, Melrose Place and similar lukewarm commercial stuff) it's quiet remarkable well done also regards to the White Wolf RPG canon and follow-up Masquerade PC games.I think that kind of game is not what Melan is looking for but for me VTM - Bloodlines is also still the most immersive dark themed FPS/RPG hyprid game done. even more than the great classics Deus Ex or System Shock 2. Shame about Activision pulling the plug on Troika and a possible sequel.
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If you liked System Shock , you can try Dead Space 1 and 2 , those games are very similiar
not really! I see no connection but being on a spaceship.
DS is ok, but quiet repetitive.
NOLF 1,2
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two classic games of Monolith before they dumped gameplay for graphics since FEAR
... you have the choice of bullet or sneak your way through these stylish games though sneaking is very hard (ghosting near impossible).
You also might try the last cool Monolith game really worth mentioning: Tron 2.0. I remember it being very unqiue and fun!
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The only one that I know of is angua who has been working on a big undead FM along with greebo but also now raising a family so it will be many months away. (but worth waiting for I promise you!)
Cannot mark an X on the spot why but to me FM from female authors have sometimes a really different feel (for good). maybe that's just a subjective impression?
the more TDM mappers we get then the more female mappers I'm sure
Most games build on id Tech 4 aren't typical games usually attracting female players. A pity none from the Thief community got attracted so far.
Someone I really really hope will take up TDM mapping is Lady Rowena.
+1
I would also love to see Gaetane give TDM a try. but I think it is very unlikly she'll do any more mapping after finishing her Magnum Opus, The Black Frog.
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I've often thought when decorating rooms with furniture, paintings, lights etc. that kids would love this 'dolls house' effect.
yap indeed. Exactly that!
My daughter is not at all speaking English or much experienced with anything PC. That a young child just observing is capable to do basics with ease tells much about DR as a intutive fine toolset!
Lol, a future mission-builder in the making, I hope.
Who knows ... If I will come up with anything nameable I gladly will let her do interior decorations etcetera ... she's already my toughest critic if a texture and deco fit a scene or not.
Speaking of potential female mappers... I always found it very remarkable that there had been so many female Thief FMA's. Is there any one female TDM mapper already?? Some female author(s) wouldn't hurt, eh guys??
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I like to add a little anectode ...
A few years ago when my daughter had been about five years old she catched me while I was playing the "Overlook Mansion" in Thief 3. Natually I decided not knocking out poor guards on their heads while my little daughter was watching. So I ghosted the mission telling her a nice fancy story why Garrett has to reach that lady at the top of the mansion. And we weren't a Thief of course but a good guy not to be seen by all that bad guys...
She had been very impressed by all of that experience. And since asked me once in a while "when we do play that game again with that Garrett??"...
What you guys build is a really huge archivement, even getting better with every new version and FM release... so recently I decided to choose Biker's "Business as Usual" to play with her as this is a fine small ghostable mission without any creepy undead or forced violence. okaay this time after finishing the FM a few guards had some swellings on their had. but heeey my daughter grown older meanwhile and can stand it by now being a "good" Robin Hood type thief and enjoyed giving the city watch some headaches
Why I'm telling you that? It tells something that I did choose TDM to showcase taffing fun and not T2 (still being a huge Thief fan). And DR is one of the reasons for that. A big Thumbs Up to everyone involved in the mod and FM mission building... Keep the spirit guys!!
Ohh.... by the way, my daughter did get so impressed by Biker's FM that she now prefer and enjoy building rooms, decorations, pools, etcetera in DR instead of doing so in Sims 2. Nothing wrong with that change for me, not at all ...
Beginner's Question
in TDM Editors Guild
Posted · Edited by fllood
1) Create a Light Entity and give it the name ambient_world. It's radius should cover your whole map beyond any walls. And the entity (as usual) not be in the void.
2) In the Light Inspector in the 'lights' list select 'lights/ambientLightnfo'.
3) Set the brightness 6 for a start.
Voi la...
The ambient_world light will now illuminate the whole map with a basic light, so no more pitch black shadows. ... later on you might consider using info_location to put different colored/brightend ambient lights to some parts of your map (not part of the A-Z however).