Drakon

There had better be... The level I'm making is kind of based on mages...

The GRAMMAR NAZIS are watching your posts. Sorry, I found an excuse to finally call someone else a grammar nazi and had to take it:)

All my maps are going to have some amount of magic; one plan for a map I have will involve a whole lot of magical lightsources, and sunlight shining in from above into an otherwise dark pit. Also, lava is a possible underground light source. I'm unsure how much light molten lava gives off IRL, but oh well. It can look cool. I doubt I'll be having magical mushrooms, though.

I'm thinking of making a short campaign... Gandalf warned us not to meddle in the affairs of wizards. Garrett, apparently, never read The Lord of the Rings. Will we be able to connect our own missions in any way? Levels could be travelled foward or backward in D3, so I'm guessing so...

I think Thief, Baldur's Gate, Half-Life 1, and some Quake has my brain locked into a state that leaves me dissatisfied with so many games... Red Faction, Neverwinter Nights, Icewind Dale, Diablo II, Guild Wars, Dungeon Siege, Thief III, Doom III... They just weren't FUN. How can I put Quake I above Doom III in my "Favorite games" list? There were as many polygons in a level of Quake 1 to make up the leg of a creature in Doom III. I've got the feeling that I like the simplicity of some games. My imagination can fill in so many gaps, and I like the way I fill in the gaps better than the way fancy graphics do. Games have been advancing in graphics and technology, but I don't see any big advances in making a game a good game.

I'd say go classless... If someone happens to be a good shot w/bow and clever trapsetter, let them be the team's assassin. If someone is good a picking locks (if it took any skill, that is), they'll be the lockpicker. But there'd have to be some way of preventing it from being "deathmatch in darkness w/ AI annoyances". Why bother do the hard stuff when you can simply kill the other team once they've done the work? While it'd be clever and such, it would really piss the other team off and not just a "Shoot, I lost" way. Just look how mad people get when someone dies in their own base in TFC, resulting in someone else capping the flag even though they brought it all the way back from the enemy base. Conflicts arise when a team of people playing to have fun (the people doing the heist) go against a team of people trying only to win. (The people killing the people who did the heist) How fun is it to sit around a half hour just to kill everyone in 2 minutes? (Well, in some situations, it IS I suppose... in rare occassions...) You would also have to prevent the AI from being slaughtered. AI vs. 1 thief SHOULD be an AI win (if the thief is unprepared or something...). AI vs 4 thieves w/ bows; The AI dies, easily. No need for stealth when you can kill anything you meet.

Is the mapper going to have any control over which floors make what kind of step noise it makes? I.E. a wallpapered wall (wooden noise) used as a carpeted floor. Mosaic floor (loud tile) used as a quieter stone floor. Etc.

I don't really think a mission should really REQUIRE any resources... I think just about every T:TDP mission you could get through without using any store bought items. Only exceptions I can think of being Return to Haunted Cathedral and Maw of Chaos on impossible. So, players should be able to waste all sorts of things at the start, but they should hope they don't mind going the rest of the way empty handed...

Saving; It is strangely... addicting. I once tried to play every level in thief without saving. (Allowing myself to restart the level, of course.) I managed it for one or two levels... every other time I found myself hitting the quicksave key almost subconciously. Though, it isn't too difficult to try and go without reloading. Try it - it is fun to go through a level without reloading. A little more excitement when you get caught. A little more clever gameplay. Ohhh my, anyone ever play MUD's? This is what my average command line looks like... n n e s save look save save (Yes, thats two saves in a row.) sleep save I find myself typing save in AOL if I was MUD'ing and chatting at the same time. Aaanyhow... I'd love to play with my saves and quickloads disabled... And, now for two amusing funnies: http://archive.gamespy.com/dailyvictim/index.asp?id=157 http://archive.gamespy.com/dailyvictim/index.asp?id=166

Will it be possible for us mappers to take away his hammers? I look at the prelate and think "mage". I need mages and other magic using people for my map... Also, would it be possible to turn any character model into a "ghost"? Just a see through version of itself? I'm still new to Doom editing, and don't really know the capabilities of the engine and whatnot... I just really want to use that guy as a mage

Whats the dude in the brown robes and bronze breastplate? He's my favorite. Those models rule, btw.

I see what you're saying. Though, I still have no problem with it, I see where many would. But, I think creaky boards could still be put in without being too random and frustrating. It would be no fun to go at a snails pace through a map to avoid making noise that may or may not happen. This is where I said last time in different words, "So just go faster, chance the noise. If you make some and get spotted, run and enjoy the chase. Enjoy the challenge of rethinking your plans whilst escaping the ruins of your last one alive. I would. Of course, having to do this 20 times in one mission would completely SUCK, which is why I'm liking my latest thinking more. But, I'm not everyone, so here's the idea, plus lots of examples. It would be up to the mapper to "ease the tension" and let one freely move through the map without worry of thousands of random factors messing up your game. In Doom(especially 3), all rooms were to be treated as if monsters could spawn in anywhere. It was commonplace, and you didn't have to move at a snails pace expecting monsters to come at you from nowhere, because the game was designed to go with the hordes of monsters. Thief, however, was not designed around hordes of monsters. You could be rest assured that swarms of guards would not spawn in behind you. However, mappers COULD do this. But they usually don't, so no one creeps from room to room expecting to be overrun by monsters. (Except for me and probably others, in The Cradle in Thief III) If the mapper has a special situation, however, where a monster DOES get teleported in, such as looting the pirate ship in T2, its their responsibilty to make sure it is done well. While I wasn't expecting things to teleport in at me, I was expecting SOMETHING to happen. Gave me a little escape scene. In a similar sense, mappers shouldn't place creaky floors in a very well made room where the entire floor but one board is silent. This sort of thing can happen in real life, but this is the situation I think would really annoy people. The entire floor of an rickety, abandoned looking house may not be creaky, but you can expect a few boards to creak due to the shoddy nature of the house. You can also expect a sturdy, non-creaking floor in a well maintained home, and these are the places were creaky floors do not belong unless there IS some manner of nearby visual clue or auditory clue, such guard walking across it. In the same way, You can also expect guards to come running, traps to be sprung, and all manner of bad, currently undetectable things to happen when you take the large gem off of the pedestal in the middle of the room in the large, opulent mansion. You wouldn't, however, expect a whole lot to happen if you open the box in some peasants basement. Creaky floors shouldn't have to be something to constantly worry about on every wooden floor. With some common sense and good mapmaking, you should usually be able to see a creaky floor in the same way you can see an ambush or a trap. I'd love to see the rare occasion where a very well hidden creak can throw me out of my strategy, but they should be far more rare. As I said above, having to escape and come up with a new strategy 20 times in one map will get old fast.

I still wonder if everyone is understanding me correctly... I'm not saying make every wooden floor in the game creaky. Yes... you can also know that once they walk a certain distance away, it should be safe to try out the noisy floor. If its not noisy, all the better. If it is, then we know not to cross that floor when someone is near. You don't have warning to plan around if a guard decides to randomly turn around either. Though, seeing as how most AI's simply do the same thing over and over again, theres a lot of randomness gone if you've watched them for a long time. (Kind of takes the thrill out of sneaking around, doesn't it?) I prefer the "reward" to be the thrill of being sneaky. Risks are necessary for that thrill. Trying to avoid the risks are fine as well, and the mapmakers should make options for both. With everything under the player's control, it becomes pac man with ghosts that run the same path over and over again and nice scenery. No, that wouldn't be fun. But, if the mapmaker wants to cover the entire map with creaky spots, thats his choice. No one is gonna like the map, but oh well. I hope no map maker makes a map with wood floors commonplace AND creaky floors on all of them. Non-creaky wood floors are fine, but I'd prefer to see creaky spots as thrillmakers rather than speedbumps; the little things in the game that throw off your plan and force some fast thinking. A challenge. If, however, the mapmaker wishes to use lots of wood floors, and creaky floors in certain areas, careful placement of the creaky spots would be necessary. What if it were made into a skill option? Toggle noise spots(creaky floors, dried leaves on sidewalks, twigs and sticks in the forest, broken glass) on/off? (I, personally, dislike the idea)

I still fail to see a problem or hindrance to gameplay. How the risk of running behind a guard and knowing theres the chance of him turning to look any different from the risk of running behind the guard and knowing the floor could creak? Both lend the same results. Theres two ways the mapper can use this: Have a guard check behind him in well lit rooms, where he would see a thief who's trying to sneak by. Or, if its a dark room, let the guard simply listen for the thief. In the bright room, you can decide: Take a chance of being caught by sneaking behind the guard, or find another way around. Or kill him, or just run past, get seen, and then run faster. In the dark room, you can decide: Take a chance of being caught by sneaking behind the guard, or find another way around. You may have just detoured around a floor that wouldn't have creaked at all, but you didn't get caught. Same for above: You may have detoured around a guard that wouldn't have turned around, but oh well. BTW, I'm more in favor of a "trigger" style creak over each footstep being randomized on the entire floor. I'd love to see a trigger where you can cause different noises from walking over it. (Walk over broken glass, creaky floors, dried up leaves on a sidewalk, etc.)

You can't have the best of luck in every mission. If you have no idea how much sound you will make when you try to sneak behind a guard, why would you sneak behind him? The mapmaker needs to be aware of this, too. Its sort of frustrating when you are forced to go through place where you can't predict your own noise level. I.E. You see your target at the end of a large room. The floor is a wooden floor. Creaky or not, you don't know yet. You also see a balcony above, made of solid stone. You could be impatient and run across the boards, chancing the creaky noise, or find a way up to the balcony and go across a more solid, silent terrain. Creaky boards can easily be used just like the noisy tiles in the originals. This time, you just have a little bit of uncertainty, and hopefully an alternate route. If you are pressed for time, you may just have to risk a little noise. I'd really like to see the ability to put creaky boards in. It'd be a great tool for mappers. How's this different from screwing up any other way? You might accidentally walk in fron't of a guard coming around a corner. You chanced the corner, and you got caught. Try escaping before you hit reload; escape is always fun. Its what you'd really have to do, anyway. Our lives would be very different if we had reload buttons. The fact that is a wooden floor should be the warning. Not a sure sign, but a warning. Avoid the wooden floors if guards are nearby.