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jaxa

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Posts posted by jaxa

  1. I think the writing is on the wall. Advanced upscaling will be adopted as widely as possible as the free performance band-aid for the gaming industry. The majority of players will probably run it automatically without even noticing.

    Recently we've seen rumors of Microsoft working on a Windows upscaler (which may be similar to AMD's RSR in that the game developers don't need to touch it) and Sony may include an NPU in a PlayStation 5 Pro for their own bespoke console-level upscaling solution (not an FSR 3/4, although those can be supported).

    The irony would be if Nvidia ended up killing the demand for gaming GPUs faster by marketing DLSS so hard, that there's less "need" for new and top-end GPUs. But they won't care because they prefer to chase more lucrative markets like AI, datacenter, automotive.

    I say "faster" because there is some point in the future when additional hardware can't push the boundaries of graphics, or faster hardware can't be created. We'll see an evolution of Unreal Engine 5's photorealism approach, adoption of 8K resolution, possibly 16K for VR, and a push to the 240-1000 FPS range. Generated frames could be used for a free doubling if not quadrupling of FPS to hit those high numbers, and upscaling tends to work better when your input/target resolution are already very high. For VR specifically, foveated rendering can slash hardware requirements, possibly by 80% or more if the implementation is good enough.

    On the hardware side, there's still free lunch to be had with a few additional node shrinks. Stacked L2/L3 cache could be extremely beneficial, think the 3D V-Cache version of Infinity Cache (Nvidia has gone with big L2 with Lovelace). We don't see adoption of High Bandwidth Memory in consumer GPUs because it is in such high demand for AI/enterprise products, but there's no technical reason it can't be used. We will see the blossoming of mega APUs this decade.

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  2. Looking at the performance charts, I feel the move is to turn it on, cap framerate at 60. Most of the minimums were around 60 with DLSS Performance on, so it would be flawless.

    But here I am at glorious 720p quality. Also my main system is out of commission for some reason, I'm going to try updating the BIOS.

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  3. I think they have extremely different attitudes towards upscaling and frame generation, particularly Nvidia. Clearly their marketing department has gone wild for it, often with claims of "3X... NO, 4X THE PERFORMANCE!".

    They want upscaling and frame generation to be an automatically applied solution that gamers use without thinking much about it, making unplayable scenarios work, particularly heavy raytracing. It will get used often for 4K, and 8K if that takes off, since there's already a lot of detail to work with at the higher resolutions. Upscaling 540p to 1080p could be a disaster, upscaling 1440p to 4K or 4K to 8K probably isn't. Frame generation can be used to fill out 1080p/480Hz or 4K/240Hz without feeling too laggy. Nvidia will not stand still on either approach, there will be a "DLSS 4", "DLSS5"... and even a "DLSS10"?

    At the lower end, some people are very satisfied that DLSS2 can help low-end cards like a 3050 Ti (mobile) hit higher frame rates, or hold at a 60 FPS cap with reduced heat and power consumption. Quality loss not apparent, except for maybe Ultra Performance mode. Your pick anyway.

    EDIT:

    NVIDIA Intros The GeForce RTX 3050 6 GB GPU At $169 – Designed For 1080p Budget Gaming, No Power Plug Required

    Quote

    The RTX 3050 6GB is a great upgrade for GeForce GTX 1650 and GTX 1050 users wanting to experience RTX. The RTX 3050 6GB is up to 4x faster than its predecessors at the same power and it also supports DLSS Super Resolution for superb performance and image quality.

    There's that magic 4X again!

  4. 1 hour ago, revelator said:

    Yeah seems the concensus has been that these new techniques for getting gfx performance are being used as a bit of a crutch instead of working toward better hardware capabilities, i kinda agree.

    I don't think they aren't delivering better hardware. 8700G is obviously much better than 5700G, Nvidia seems to be pushing top-end by at least 60% per gen. AMD might stagnate with RDNA4 but deliver 4080-ish performance at much lower $400-600 prices.

    Most of the reviewers are testing without upscaling or are being transparent about where they are using it. It's a must to turn-on only with raytracing it seems.

    AMD's APUs are clearly kneecapped by the memory bandwidth, and from the leaks we've seen there is no solution in sight for the mainstream APUs (next one is Strix Point). Strix Halo on the other hand will have a doubled memory bus width, but I wouldn't count on a mini PC with it to beat CPU+dGPU combos in price/performance unless we see some really generous pricing.

    They could work magic with it if they wanted to, particularly a cheaper 8-core model. Strix Halo is presumably using up to 2x 8-core Zen 5 chiplets, so 6/8/12/16 is planned according to leaks.

    https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-ryzen-8000-zen5-apus-leak-strix-halo-with-rdna3-5-igpu-to-compete-with-up-to-rtx-4070-max-q

    That leak is almost a year old, but from what I can gather we'll probably see this:

    16-core Zen 5, 40 CUs RDNA3.5, 256-bit memory (270 GB/s)
    12-core Zen 5, 32 CUs RDNA3.5, 256-bit memory (270 GB/s)
    8-core Zen 5, 24/32(?) CUs RDNA3.5, 256-bit memory (270 GB/s)
    6-core Zen 5, 20 CUs RDNA3.5, 128-bit memory (135 GB/s)

    All coming with a 45-50 TOPS XDNA2 AI engine. Sometime in 2025.

    Those memory bandwidth figures may be assuming around DDR5-8200 to DDR5-8400, not sure.

    A 7600 XT has 288 GB/s and 6700 XT has 384 GB/s, so there's still starvation but doubling that memory bus should greatly alleviate the problem.

  5. High-NA EUV is obv independent of the substrate. It's going to get used regardless. The scenario where it doesn't get used is if an older process node could be used, which was one of the ideas behind nanotube-based 3DSoC.

    So, the brand new Ryzen 8000G desktop APUs are out. The consensus is they don't make sense compared to CPU + dGPU:

    https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/amd-ryzen-7-8700g-cpu-review
    https://www.techspot.com/review/2796-amd-ryzen-8700g/
    https://www.anandtech.com/show/21242/amd-ryzen-7-8700g-and-ryzen-5-8600g-review
    https://www.phoronix.com/review/amd-ryzen7-8700g-linux
    https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/01/ryzen-8000g-review-an-integrated-gpu-that-can-beat-a-graphics-card-for-a-price/
    Gamers Nexus video review

    Neat though.

  6. I think more people care about the quality than the performance, and one of the assertions is that DLSS is better than FSR when working with a low input resolution. If you're doing something like turning 1440p into 4K (~66.7% render scale), any upscaling technique will work well. Then frame generation is a whole 'nother can of worms.

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