roygato
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Posts posted by roygato
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Waiting for the upcoming Mandalore video on Deadly Shadows, should be fun.
I didn't hate DS, it's certainly a better effort than goddamn Invisible War. But like you say, it has shortcomings. The engine is less than stellar and in some design aspects they just got lazy. For example "Steal three special loot objects" or "Steal 90% of the loot in the mission", as opposed to doing it the old way with actual flair. And Cradle can go fuck itself, even though it was the most memorable thing about the game.
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You have a lot of faith in a random forum poster's knowledge.
But that is an idea, maybe I'll do it yet. I don't tend to remix missions, the only exception I can think of was one massive Thief 2 FM, with some serious bugs. The literal forum thread for it was advising people to fire up the editor and try fixing stuff on their own.
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It appears the author of this mission isn't around anymore, but after replaying it, it has one serious flaw.
SpoilerThe builders and the undead are on the same team, which is a huge shame, since it's a rare case where the catacombs are actually reachable by the AI, as opposed to conveniently cut-off by ladders and whatnot. I was so ready to lead the builders into a massive brawl, but alas.
Other than that mishap, it's pretty good. The well was kind of annoying, found it impossible to climb out of.
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Oh yeah. having the AI beat each other up is one of my favorite things, although in the case of zombies, they are pretty easy to kill as is. Usually I just make the guards on the same team brawl each other. Or like in this mission, the good guys down the street fight the bad guys, although the AI had some trouble.
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Yeah. At least there are some candles around, but the one I was carrying went out as I started fighting him, so it was literally like having my monitor turned off. Thankfully there was another one in the church.
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Just replayed this one. It had the dubious honor of being the only TDM mission I actively disliked, for two reasons.
1. The insane darkness in some areas, and no reliable light source. It's like Thief 2 fan missions, where some authors have a completely wack idea of proper darkness levels.
Spoiler2. The damn jumpscare in the crypt, like is that really necessary?
But now with the experience of all the available missions under my belt, I gave it another go. And it's not as bad as I remembered, I think. I recall being stuck in the first dark room (with the candle and statue trinket) for like an hour, and I'm not sure why, since you can just bash the door open. Could be I didn't realize it, or I just lost the candle, in which case you can't see anything. As for the spoiler, at least I was ready for it, but it's still obnoxious.
Other than that, I definitely explored a lot more this time around. Didn't know many of these areas even existed. As for the above discussion
On 7/4/2019 at 10:44 AM, Dragofer said:@Hagatha
When I played the mission I also tried to get past there to no avail, ended up noclipping past only to realise that you're not supposed to go this direction as it's a one-way path. I don't remember the correct route anymore unfortunately, but if I remember correctly you should look into some of the openable windows.
You can go back the same way, it just takes a very precise jump/mantle. Maybe not intended, but it's doable. I only tried it, because I thought I had to go back to the beginning to end the mission, since I didn't read the objective. Ended up finding some other areas in the process.
SpoilerAlso, since I finished with roughly 500 loot short, there was still some stuff left to find. But unless there were secret objectives, I didn't have a whole lot of inspiration to continue. Already knocked out every NPC in the map. so I kind of yolo'd it anyway. The whole setup with the thugs and the friendly dudes before the hostile alley was awkward, the AI had some trouble fighting one another. And what was that Harry Potter novel of a readable in the church, that thing had like a thousand pages. I usually read everything I come across, but I had to give up there.
So, if nothing else, it gained some redemption for itself. It's still probably my least favorite mission, but it has more going for it than I gave it credit for. Probably not a great one for newcomers, though.
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Oh that's how you use the fuse, never figured that one out.
Was trying to reach that breath potion for like three hours.
I wouldn't feel too bad, though, it's still a banger of a mission.
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32 minutes ago, ZeroOmega said:
Both on the roof an the immediate area to the left of where you start, though that one is kind of cool cause I feel like a physics breaking ninja dropping down on the guy with the lantern
Indeed, the white boxes next to the building were similarly broken. EDIT: Oh I see what you mean from the screenshot. Didn't experience that myself, since I knocked that guy out like five seconds in.
I spent way too much time on the roof trying to do god-knows what, only to get increasingly frustrated by the physics. Was trying to climb most every object, think there was some item on top of the highest stack of stuff.
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1 minute ago, ZeroOmega said:
Theres many instances where jumping makes you float and your unable to climb onto things, its a real pain trying to get around on the roof or even the white boxes on the side of the building near the water
If you're referring to the first building in the mission, then I can vouch for this. Trying to do anything on the roof was a fool's errand, since jumping/climbing didn't really co-operate.
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9 minutes ago, peter_spy said:
but I doubt such dismissive attitude towards mappers or content creators will help with anything.
There's probably a joke about not having developers interact with end users.
Source: Am developer, pls don't make me interact with anyone.
PS. I love how this particular emoji exists here, but it looks kind of mangled, lol.
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15 minutes ago, peter_spy said:
There was one person who was banned for the practice mentioned and was still defended by the most arduous fans just because they map a lot and people have stuff to play. As for the most recent example, see my post above. I was casually asked to share an unfinished and unreleased mission by an author who's not been around for quite some time. That doesn't sound like respect, does it?
I see, I did almost ask if there was some forum event that happened in the past. Considering there will be a vocal minority to defend almost anything, it doesn't particularly surprise me. I would imagine a majority of TDM players don't visit the forums, though.
Btw, it wasn't Bikerdude was it? I've only recently started following this forum with any regularity, so I'm not very familiar with most anything, but I do remember reading old threads about drama of years past.
As for the unreleased mission bit, I did notice the posts in the beta testing forum. Could be just a bored player, without any malicious intent, albeit not exactly tactful. A leeching mapper is another story, but there seems to be a precedent for shutting that down at least.
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Just now, peter_spy said:
There's a history of making unwanted changes to maps and copy-pasting portions of one map to another, yes. And players not giving a crap as long as they have something new to play.
Interesting. That said, surely it's up to the team to enforce this if it's undesirable, instead of thinking the players "don't give crap". Why would anyone downloading TDM missions even think about meta drama like this.
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I'm also curious, has anything like this ever once veritably happened, or is it all anecdotes and "could-be" scenarios?
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AI doing weird shit is the best. Have to replay this at some point and hopefully witness whatever does happen.
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2 minutes ago, wesp5 said:
Exactly, but I would guess that many people expected something similar to the original Prey, like a linear shooter with portals before Portal, gravity anomalies and other cool stuff. Instead they got a System Shock clone immersive sim with endless respawning enemies inside the same few maps like the original. Which of course would be great for people wanting this, but for others it would be a big dissapointment. Like sticking the title Thief and the name Garret to a game and then not delivering what this should mean!
Was the original Prey actually popular enough for that to have been a realistic scenario? I would imagine the game flopping more because nobody knew it even existed. At least personally, I properly learned about it quite after the fact.
That said, it is odd they used the Prey title at all, since it's not like it was meant to be a reboot or have any connection whatsoever, as far as I'm aware.
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13 minutes ago, wesp5 said:
Later though Arkane Studios made the same error by calling their take on "System Shock 3" "Prey", and of course if flopped as well. I think people underestimate how much expectations matter!
What you mean, they obviously called it Prey to cash in on the Prey 2006 money. /s
Prey 2017 was awesome though. Certainly makes it matter less if we never get SS3 from Night Dive or anybody else.
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1 hour ago, chakkman said:
I'm surprised that you don't remember - the whore house, the foundry, Eastwick Manor, or the Asylum. But then, I don't remember a lot of stuff in games I don't enjoy as well, so, that might be the answer.
Oh yeah, there was the whorehouse. I have a vague memory of the last cutscene, and one peephole.
In the game's defense, and somewhat contradicting my own point, playing through anything only once makes it harder to retain information in the long run. And it's been half a decade now.
1 hour ago, AluminumHaste said:Which shows how dumb they are, by calling the main character Garrett, and making one of his eyes different. Cause it's not a previous Garrett and it's not Thief 4......Fucking morons.
Should've just called it "Robber", starring Gary the criminal.
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23 minutes ago, Springheel said:
The constant player animations were clunky and annoying at the best of times (I stopped picking up scissors because of them) and in the worst cases actually moved you from the shadow to the light, resulting in detections that otherwise wouldn't happen.
The "swoop" was a blatant ripoff of the Dishonored blink ability.
I wish the swoop was an actual ripoff, and not the sorry excuse we got instead. I really hate how you can't even jump in the game.
As for the animations, in a post I wrote about the game on another forum back when I finished it, I pondered how much of the 32 hours was spent either on loading screens, or squeezing through narrow spots or opening windows and hatches. It got kind of tiring watching those over and over, realism be damned.
Had to go and fish my own post from back in the day, my abridged thoughts on the game are in the spoiler.
Spoiler- Focus powers/RPG upgrades were useless
- Movement is refined, but "comes with consequences" (not sure why I didn't just write that it's incredibly awkward and restrictive)
- Rope arrows are lame now, takedowns ala Human Revolution are cool
- City hub is the most Thief-like stuff you'll ever do in the game
- Loading screens and animations for movement are tedious as all hell
- Main story mission design is awful (linear, no running back and forth, always end in cinematic after reaching point X, etc)
- Like Thief 1, you barely have any missions where you do any thieving, albeit the first game has much better mission design
- Story is all over the place, not bad per se, but not memorable. Sad there's no original VA, but the new one did a great job until he started shouting (I guess if you say so, past me)
- Repeating the TB quote, stealth fans might want to give it a go, Thief fans maybe not
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I don't have a whole lot of reverence for either side, so I don't particularly mind stuff being either modernized or having old school traits. For example, I think the GMDX mod for the original Deus Ex makes the game better. If nothing else, just the act of not having to activate every damn augmentation separately makes it so much less clunky. On the flipside, when I played Prey 2017, I happily accepted all the optional modifiers, such as weapon degradation, for that extra challenge. I guess you could call those old school features.
In Thief 2014's case, it just removed almost all the fun I had come to associate with Thief games, and replaced it with pretty much nothing worth mentioning. Like Deadly Shadows, I enjoyed them further explore the atmospheric city hub design, but the main campaign missions are just so poor. Out of the original campaigns, it's my most recently played, and I don't remember anything about it, other than the Cradle ripoff.
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Don't know what this thread is even about anymore, but since we're on the topic of bashing Thief 2014, I'll just add that I more or less agree with STiFU and New Horizon. I don't remember the game well enough to say one thing or another about the AI or the sound, but as a game bearing the Thief-title, it was pretty miserable.
It's like they took the success of Human Revolution as a sign that they should just re-skin it as a Thief game and call it a day. Almost like they never played the original trilogy. I think TotalBiscuit wrote something along the lines of "I enjoyed it, but it's not really for the fans of the series", which sounds about right. Had I never played the other games, I may have enjoyed it much more. I had my qualms with Deadly Shadows, such as the technical issues, loading screens, and some design stuff, but I enjoyed it a hell of a lot more than 2014.
It is a shame, since I loved Human Revolution, close to my favorite game ever, and it had to live up to the legendary original as well. Worth mentioning I played Human Revolution first, so who knows what my opinion would be if it were the other way around. I'm a much newer fan of these two series, I played them around 2012-2014, so not exactly an old school fan yearning for the "good old days".
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Well that was creative.
SpoilerI was expecting a traditional "get-in-there-and-grab-stuff" mission, perhaps with a twist of the "thing" being moved, since I found a note pertaining to it early, but the time travel concept was really cool. Almost like one of those missions where you first case the joint and then come back later. Really fun way to switch things up. Also having the history document change based on what you did in the past was a neat idea.
I also did things in quite a wack order. First I found the underground bunker with the skeletons and the note. Then I found the time machine and then finally went to the museum. But it all worked fine and gave a bit of a preview for what was to come.
The ambient music was cool, although I'm not sure it was always appropriate.
SpoilerNamely talking about the time machine house. If it were a horror mission, or at least ambiguous, I'd have been shitting my pants. But since it was just dumbass thugs, it felt a little out of place.
As for some objectives.
SpoilerJust from storytelling perspective, I found it a little odd that we would straight up steal the ring for the guy. He seemed like an upstanding fellow, considering he wrote about saving up money for it, so I'm not sure if he would be like "sweet, I'll take it", if the ring suddenly materialized at his bedside.
Now the pawnbroker, I'm sure he was very happy to have the bust out of nothing, no questions asked.
I think I found like 3 or 4 secrets, and 3300 or so loot, quite a bit that I missed. There was one door I couldn't figure out how to open and the museum's basement had the safe with the missing key. Did not stumble upon the guard's house apparently, or if I did I didn't find the key, so I knowingly let some stuff undone. May go back to run around a bit more later.
I didn't read the whole thread again, but I may have discovered a bug.
SpoilerYou can open the combination-locked case storing the golden hammer by literally running into the door. No joke, I opened it by accident when I had my back turned to it and I was fiddling with the movable boxes next to it. It's not even one of those cosmic ray bugs, it's 100% reproducible.
In case you want to test it, you have to kind of graze it by running from left to right, instead of dead-on. Once it's open, you can close it by simply pushing it shut.
Very enjoyable mission, with some really novel ideas, which is always great to see after having played all the others. Good job.
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Finished this one last night. Went with Ghost, despite the no-knockouts, since I figured it would be a very small mission. Which it was, but as mentioned, potentially quite tricky. I loved the verticality, and the fact that it was super easy to climb your way up to the top floor, and then drop back down. Especially since I ended up needing more running back and forth than I would've ever imagined, and I couldn't be bothered to be very sneaky about it.
As far as loot goes
SpoilerI didn't find all of it, but enough to pass the objective. That said, the tiny lock-box atop the shelf was a pain in the ass. Clever that you had to carry something to stand on to reach it, but god damn if it didn't require some serious wiggling to find a position that would allow me to frob the loot. I even carried a second box for more reach, but that helped none.
Other than that
SpoilerIt took far too long for me to find the damn key for the box in that one guy's office. Seriously, the first time I found it I thought it shot out from space and landed on the floor. I think a guard outside must've smacked it through the wall and made it bounce around the room. Afterwards I died and had to try and find it all over again, which I thankfully did.
Obviously not a long mission, but for a first effort it's a decent one. Considering the ease of movement, you could even make it actually require ghosting, so that people like me don't just make mockery out of stealth, but that's neither here nor there. Good job in any case.
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1 hour ago, JackFarmer said:
Sorry, you are right, wrong quote. However:
That's a bug, that has not been reported till now. Normal condition is, that you have to place the items on the pedestals you mentioned.
It seems some mechanics do not work on certain configurations (perhaps because of the complexity of the set-ups or the map size?). There had also been reports that the plate traps in the gated area before the Citadel do not activate the fireball shooters. However, these traps are even prefabs from stock and lots of players had no problems with the traps.
However, I am very sorry that the optional target in question did not work for you (it is normally quite challenging to complete it), but I do not know how to fix that.
{/spoiler]
Thanks for the answer
SpoilerIndeed, I wouldn't be surprised if the massive mission size results in these strange game-states. And don't worry about it; it was honestly funny how I could just walk right in as if I was invited. Imagine if Indiana Jones had it so easy in his adventures.
What comes to the fireball shooters, I can also confirm they didn't work for me. Or actually let me clarify. I stepped on one of them, nothing happened, I stepped away and quicksaved. After fucking something up I quickloaded and after spawning in, the trap shot out a fireball. So kind of worked? lol
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6 hours ago, JackFarmer said:
Thanks, other newcomers will definitely appreciate it, especially if they're as blind as I am.
Btw, you quoted a different passage from my post than you commented on. I would actually like to hear about that part as well, if I just found a strange bug.
Random video of the day...
in Off-Topic
Posted · Edited by roygato
Well, speak of the devil.
I had forgotten so much already. The tutorial in particular looks awful, and this had 3rd person too??? The movement bug he talks about at 19:15 drove me insane.
Also, what an asshole I am for not looking for fan patches. I suppose I'll chalk it up to being fairly new to single player PC gaming at the time. But seeing all the fixes the fan patch brings is kind of astounding. No more loading screens alone would've been a godsend.
As for other stuff, the AI brawls were so much fun. It's dumb, but I love that shit. Not having rope arrows sucked, the loot quota presentation sucked. The level designs themselves being so cramped I didn't remember either until he pointed it out. I didn't have big feelings one way or another for the story of DS, but it delving into the Keepers seemed appropriate. Cradle is Cradle; love it or hate it (and I hated it, because I didn't sign up for this shit), it is very well put together and immensely memorable.
Not sure if he'll do a TDM video any time soon, but he does end this one with "TDM is great", so there is that at least.