Nosslak
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Posts posted by Nosslak
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Today I wanted to fix a problem with my plaguemask and as it was a long time ago since I used DR I wanted to consult the wiki for advice. Yet again I realized that it's nearly impossible to find anything there. If I want to find something I need to know the exact title of the page (I tried searching for model list and the model wishlist page didn't pop up on the first page of results) or I better pray that it's accessible from one of the pages linked from here:
http://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=Main_Page
I wanted the A-Z guide for DR today and if I hadn't known where to find the link for it (under quick installation guide) I would probably not have found it. I remember that Serpentine wrote a page with some useful tips for DR as well but it doesn't seem to be linked from the DR page and I don't know the exact title for it either so that's gone forever for me (if I don't want to search through my 35+ page thread for the link).
I'm just asking if someone could go through the wiki and link all/most of the articles from one of the subpages of the wikis start page. I know it'll be a tedious job but I think it'll help people out enough that it'd be worth it.
I was just wandering if anyone could try to improve/maintain the wiki better? For this kind of work you don't need any programming/modeling/mapping experience so anyone should be able to do it.
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Mirrored from the halloween contest thread:
I tried putting it in, but it renders only solid black. Doesn't matter if I extract the .rar into my darkmod directory, or if I extract it and repackage all as a .pk4 (and put that into my darkmod directory)... either way it renders black. I had the same problem with the bellows originally... I don't think I ever got it fixed until the bellows was officially packaged with TDM. Will look more later at the materials file.
I think I found the problem. Apparently I had called my dds texture map "texture" instead of "textures". If you're feeling brave you can just try changing the name of the "texture" folder here: "[map_name]\dds\models\darkmod\props". Alternatively you can just download a new fixed copy at the same location as before:
http://dl.dropbox.co.../plaguemask.rar
I apologize for the inconvenience.
No no, sorry, I just used the "generic box machine" in my FM (with some pipes into the glass room with the fuming mushrooms), which is why having someone make a real one would be so awesome... We need more machine variety and not have to use that box for everything. That machine I used was supposed to actually *be* an alembic, but it doesn't look anything like one.
And the blueprints are just a custom .tga for the book pages, but that pic you posted is what they are actually blueprints of.I'll try to make a better one for you when the cart's finished in that case.
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I tried putting it in, but it renders only solid black. Doesn't matter if I extract the .rar into my darkmod directory, or if I extract it and repackage all as a .pk4 (and put that into my darkmod directory)... either way it renders black. I had the same problem with the bellows originally... I don't think I ever got it fixed until the bellows was officially packaged with TDM. Will look more later at the materials file.
I think I found the problem. Apparently I had called my dds texture map "texture" instead of "textures". If you're feeling brave you can just try changing the name of the "texture" folder here: "[map_name]\dds\models\darkmod\props". Alternatively you can just download a new fixed copy at the same location as before:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2000935/plaguemask.rar
I apologize for the inconvenience.
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Oh yeah, that's nice! Transition into a low-poly has gone fairly well too.
Ah that's great.
Thanks!
Heh that's the machine in my FM, and the blueprints you're supposed to find are actually design drawings of an alembic or distillery.
So you've made one already? I might still be able to make a better version with normal maps and all that jazz. Would you mind showing a picture of it?
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I'd love to, but can't see a way of fitting it in right now since I have no AI which would be apt to wear a mask. But we'll see... I do have one idea which might work... will have to tinker around with it a bit later.
Nice, I'll make sure to try to play it regardless.
A picture of said mask would be helpful
I didn't really think that there were so many masks that there was any doubt to which I meant.
It's not in any released version of TDM yet (will be included in the next one) but I uploaded it so you can use it before the next release anyway:
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Niiice!
awesomeness.
Thanks!
Diffuse pass is almost done:
Just some small things left to fix (mainly dirty it up). I'll probably move on to the normal and maybe specular maps tomorrow.
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Is anyone using my mask for their FM? Would be cool to see it used in-game.
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I haven't forgotten about the cart just yet, it's just that it was a bastard to unwrap (maybe 20-30 islands that I had to mess around with) and I had some schoolwork to do.
It's still far from completion and the normals for the wheels are looking pretty funky as well, but it's a start.
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Goggles would fit (we have a pair already though they're not great). Top-hats are too victorian for our setting, though.
Okey, I really didn't think there were such a thing as too victorian when it came to TDMs universe.
That distillery would be cool...I posted that same picture in at least one of the dozen steampunk image threads over the years.
Any kind of cool old-fashioned machinery would be nice to see, since we have so little.
In that case that's probably where I got it from. I've got a whole folder with photos of machines that could work in a steampunk setting or at least function as inspiration where I just uploaded it from. If anyone's interested I can upload either that folder or my whole reference library for TDM.
I am having a hard time finding visual references but since Electricity is part of this alternate history I think it would be cool to see more Tesla style voltage regulators (etc).
I couldn't really find any picture that was even the slightest steampunk-ish when I googled for "Tesla voltage regulators". I think you might mean Tesla coils, if so I do believe there are some of those in the game already.
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Most steampunk would be for ambience I think. And enigmatic in their purpose, as they should. Small steampunk models may be good for loot. Steampunk models may easily get very detailed that might be a challenge. or make them impossible to model with reasonable poly I guess.
As long as the silhouette is fairly simple you can fake a lot with good normalmaps, so I'm not sure that really is a big problem. But as you say they tend to get pretty intricate and it is pretty hard to make steampunk models IMO as you most often can't just throw on a bunch of cog-wheels and such and still make it look realistic. Instead you have to plan it out a bit more carefully so it'll look like it's got some kind of function and this is where I suffer the most.
I have actually thought about making similar models to those photographies as well. I've considered making a top-hat, goggles and a similar mirror but have then changed my mind. I found a really intricate mirror maybe half a year ago that I was seriously considering making but then I remembered that I had read/seen that the PCs animations were pretty horrid so I changed my mind. I wasn't sure if steampunk goggles would really fit in the TDM universe but if you want I could still make a pair. I also might still do a top hat as they're pretty cool.
EDIT: I could try my hand at making something more exotic and enigmatic like this:
Apparently it's an alembic (used for destillation) but I wouldn't have known what it was without the filename and I think it's generic enough to be usable for most purposes (like that other blue cylindrical machine).
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Generally I think TDM is short of steampunk type models...
Yeah, but it would help if you were more specific. If you would suggest a purpose that needs to be filled by said machine and some kind of reference for what you had in mind, it would make my job a lot easier.
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well I will have a stabe at making a replica of your cart in DR so you have something for comparision
May I ask why you want it to be made out of patches at all?
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Yeah, I see no reason to make them out of patches. Though a simple low poly no spoke model would be fine. You could even just bake spoke 'ribs' onto a low poly wheel and it would look fancy without the need for modeled spokes and see thru wheels.
And something as small as that, even if it was patches, you'd be culling a few tris quicker than a model... Not a reason to do that imo as models are typically easier to use anyway. (collision mesh, shadows, entities all inclusive).
And tris are tris so patch or model, there's no advantage for performance (other than models can have a shadow mesh and patches can't)
And if they are seperate from the main model they would cull individually as the cart passes out of view of a vis-portal. ie: the front wheels and cart would be rendering but not the back wheels...
That's basically what I thought too. I don't know how to make patches at all and there would be close to no real performance gains or anything else (AFAIK, please correct me if I'm wrong) so I'll just stick to making the wheels and everything else of models.
Also just to be sure: I should make the coal/stone textures separate from the other textures, right? So that they could be re-used and swapped between easier?
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Hi Noss,
Can you make things like the wheels out of patches, and for that matter make them solid, no need for fancy spokes to be honest..
Um, I have no idea how to make patches or mostly anything else in DR. Every time I've tried DR it's felt like a really slow and awkward program so I haven't bothered learning it properly (I basically only know how to make box, playerstart and place a prop). Is there any reason to make it out of patches instead of a mesh? AFAIK the only advantage of patches is that the parts that cannot be seen can be culled and with models you can only ever cull everything or nothing. I imagine this is a great advantage for big walls and such, but for wheels I can see no advantage.
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Back to the topic
. What about some headhunting on the main page of TDM site?Yeah, that is a good idea. Someone should probably make a post over at ModDB and Polycount as well.
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It took a bit longer than I'd hoped but the mask is ready for you:
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There was a bigger delay than I first anticipated but the Mask™ is finally ready:
http://dl.dropbox.co.../plaguemask.rar
It is being committed to SVN as we speak so it should be in the next version (1.07) but if you want to use it for the contest or anything else before that this is your chance.
Some schoolstuff has come up so I haven't been able to finish the minecart yet. I will start texturing it soon.
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It seems like you could go pretty low on that. All the metal bands could just be baked. But hard to say without seeing wires.
Yeah that's what I thought too but the wheels take up most of those polys (about 1300 tris) and I don't feel that I can optimize those much more without sacrificing roundness. I also added some bevels on the wood after doing some way overdue normal-baking tests on cubes which concluded in that the bevelled versions looked a lot better that the hard edged ones. I've also read several posts on Polycount that said what is important is how many vertices your model has which will turn out to be about the same amount if you make hard edges as if you bevel them. Here's the wires:
But I don't think 2000 is really that much. After doing some mapping/lighting optimization again last week it just became really clear what's important. It's all about cast shadows.
I'd think a shadow mesh on that could be under 200 tris for the main cart (not wheels). And yeah, in a mine you probably won't have more than 203 lights on it at anytime.
And you should make an LOD too that could be half the tris of the up close version.
I keep forgetting that it's the shadow meshes that matter every time. I'm not sure if I'll be able to do a good and much lower poly shadowmesh for the wheels as that are so thin that if lower the polys on the circles they will most probably intersect. I'll try to do a lod as well.
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I'd do 2 collisions, it's big enough to warrant it. Would be weird to have an arrow stick in the wheel, or go clank and bounce off the wood.
But it could be fairly simple... Well, now that I look closer...
It's mainly only the wheels that aren't wood. Don't worry about collision for the metal bands.
I guess it depends.
If it's all one piece, yeah make metal for wheels and wood for rest.
If you just make the cart, with a seperate wheel, we could probably make an entity with attached wheels. Only issue is that's a bit harder for mappers to align to track as they can't actually see the wheels in editor. BUT, if they want it to move with rotating wheels, then maybe we just need a wiki entry 'Place mine cart ENTITY 48 units above track' or they can go in/out of game to check it.
after weighing options...
I'd say just export a wheel and a wheeless cart.
We'll make an entity with attached wheels, and it's easy enough to trigger the rotations (I have a test/machines map with switch/gears in a machine).
Might take a bit more magic to make the cart move around corners, but a straight track is pretty simple.
The cart itself might be able to be the trigger, player frobs it, it moves foawrd so many uints at such and such speed. and wheels rotate so far...
Sounds like a better plan. Thanks.
I've begun work on the lowpoly, but I think it is becoming way too highpoly. Right now it rests at about 1900 polys (the wheels are taking up a whopping 314 polys each) and I've still got some stuff left to add. Is ~2000 polys too much or will it be fine as they'd probably be used mostly in pretty closed caves/mines with not much else to render?
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Here's an update for you too:
I'll just add some more wear and tear and then I think I'll move on to the lowpoly.
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Loving your work Nosslak - thanks for posting here. Don't worry about the "era" for things like minecarts. Lord knows this universe is an aesthetic mish mash.
Thanks! I figured it wasn't that important but I felt that I wanted to rationalize why I chose it anyway.
Oooh pretty pretty - we need some mine carts, what about a steam engine to go with..?! Oh now that give me an idea for my next mission....
Thanks! Attaching a steam engine to it could be cool, I might look into it.
On this should make 2 collision models (since it won't be a moveable it doesn't matter how complex it is).
So collision mesh one is wood parts (for arrows) and collision 2 would be for metal parts.
I would've just made one but sure I can make 2 instead if you think that is worthwhile (only metalparts are some framing and the wheels).
I see no reason why it can't move. It's 'movables' that need simple collision. things you pick up and throw, that bounce around.
But like your mask, you can attach an object to something and have it 'move'. In this case you'd need 1 cart model, and 1 wheel model. The wheel could be made to rotate with scripts (and could also be a misc moveable item), it can be attached to the cart, and the cart could be scripted to move.
Oh, yeah, I suspected that might be what a moveable was. Thanks for the explanations.
Look at the wheel barrow also, would be great to have a 'materials' plane inside that can be skinned to empty, coal, rocks...
Clever, I'll make sure to add one of those.
break it down into models. 1 complete stationary model, one with no wheels and one moveable collision wheel.Will do!
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That looks awfully modern. But take that with a grain of salt. I have no idea what flies in a universe with steam powered sentry robots.
I've been wanting to make a minecart for quite some time now and I've basically just seen two varitions:
- Metal
- Wood
I just went with the one that looked the oldest.
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Awesome! Also, can it move realistically?
Thanks! This is the highpoly so this won't move anywhere. It would look really sweet if I could get the lowpoly to move realistically along a rail but I'll probably need to make the CM with <16 tris so that won't happen. Hopefully it could be set up to go along a curve by a mapper when you push it down a slope or push a button or something like that instead.
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Still got a bunch left to do.
Halloween Speed Build Contest
in Fan Missions
Posted
Awesome, I'm looking forward to seeing it in-game.
Thanks!