Ok, still no joy TDM loaded throught the Doom3 load screen choosing the mods tab. Then TDM allowed choosing the training mission, again it only appears on the Doom3 mods tab. Restarting TDM begins with the Doom3 load choice screen but now choosing either the DarkMod or the now selectable traning mission I get a C++ runtime error in Doom3.exe I Doom3 was operating before, such as it is (head still spinning) and I have patched it from TDM's (your) link to DOOM3-1.3.1 before my TDM install. Doom3 still runs such as it is (stomach still churning) It appears there's still somthing bad in my TDM install Any good ideas anyone? Also, is the only "way" into TDM throught the Doom3 mods tab choice? Or is there something a bit more direct i.e. a switch or .cfg file command / tweak so that you that can load directly into TDM (still have the DOOM3 hangover and don't like the memories...). Thanks! EarlyTaffer