firoso

I'm aware of the Springheel, but implementing JUST the 30 second timer is significantly more simplistic then implementing a full inherited Holy trait that can be attached to an item (holy crate ftw!)

I just thought that was being male... *shrug* either way that's more about Garret's motivation than his methods, but yeah I definately see where the ego factor plays in, but that's more about the story hook than the actual story, a good example of this is lord baffords manor, tho I'm about 80% sure that level was seriously designed as TTLG's "thieves' den" demo map and later incorporated into the game as it doesn't really play an important role in the story, but for that matter neither does #3 or 4 for the most part.

Didn't think of that specifically but it's a good point, and it also helps characterize the thief as an anti-hero of sorts. Another very good point. Garret also seems to be the least emotionally driven character in the thief story line which I found very interesting, tho at the same time, i found Garret to be the most human and the most believable character, it's his rigid allegience to himself that makes him such a fascinating character. This is what I'm trying to say, you can have all the artwork in the world, all the thieving tools, all the sounds, all the effects and interface, but without a good grasp on how the thief world tells stories, there's no way to recreate that sense of a thief game dead on. Storytelling is the ONLY thing that deadly shadows got dead on, I loved TDS's story even though the game it's self made me want to cry out of sheer "ya'llareidiotsgodieinafire" rage..

great, so now we just need a concrete decision on how to go about this, and then i'll need to work with gree to implement whichever method we choose, I think that although the 30 seconds is easier, the more universal approach would definately benefit the project more, so really it's your call, I'm up to the task either way, but i'll definately need a bit of "hand holding" through this one :-P btw, what editor do you all use? I'm planning to use UE32.

wouldn't it be easier to have a weapon flag called holy? then holy could be arbitrarily assigned to anything so long as it's stim can be triggered, this could allow for holy swords in custom FM's etc. and you're also forgetting the useage of holy water fonts. So we need to account for mutliple methods of applying holy to a weapon (flashbombs can rely on holy for instance...) so however you want to do this... Edit: looks like I can pass a void effect_damage_action(...) as a response for holypwned critters so all I really need to do is get an understanding on binding these and i could force water arrows to also be holy arrows at the same time, past that it's all about integrating the toggleing of said holy abilities.

Didn't spot the HOLY stim, but the rest I gathered by looking through source. (I told you I learn fast...) SO I assumed that I'd need to give water arrows both types of stim properties, and then enable/disable the stim based on programmatic holy water useage.

I'd suggest addign that as a default spawn arg of your func_door.

wewt! bugg! *Step one, fire arrow at base of door some moss "attaches" it's self vertically to the door's surface* *Step two, open door, moss stays floating in air* *step three, try to move through door and laugh as I have to jump over the moss because it blocks pathing*

I've looked at the defs, pretty much self explanatory, tho I'm curious as to why some ammo has 2\3 forms, one is attached to a weapon or something? the other is just a large quiver it seems, that makes sense (water arrows are rocket packs huh? :-P) edit: Took the liberty to poke around the scripts a bit, it's not exactly clear to me how water arrows are working precisely right now but it seems they're firing off a water stim, which the torch is responding to via an actee/actor type relationship, if this is true is it going to simply be a matter of triggering off a different stimulus for holy damage in very much the EXACT same manner, and subscribe ghoulies to use a custom response the causes them to dissolve into a pool of holy smiteage? cuz if so then that's half the battle, the other half would be setting up some sort of trigger to enable the holy effect in the first place.

I guess I was refering to the storytelling style that can be utilized *shrug*. TDM != Thief, this I am well aware, but as a spiritual successor FM platform... it is important in my opinion to discuss storytelling in order for the community to get into that "Thief mindset" and develop the best possible missions.

points made ;-)

holy water it is! I'll back burner that, the artwork would be out, I'd be changing the "cards" to something a bit more video game friendly. (just a list of traits that can chosen fallout style) and then some additional flags and code would have to go into weaspons... and item pickups... and the list goes on. I just got Thieves den so on to looking at scripts

if a falling effect were well implemented, I could see this working out, however I suppose the frustration and functionality argument holds alot of water here. I meant it should feel unintrusive, but implementing such a game factor properly, this could definately cause issues. Either way tho, my only remaining real concern is the rising bug, but i'm sure you already have ideas on the back burner.

This is an open invitation for discussion, not me trying to cram my views down peoples throats. In my opinion, Thief has a few major themes, the most obvioius and overarching being the theme of balance. The keepers sought to maintain it, but it was never truely stable... If it was the keepers would be out of work. It's obvious that the keepers themselves while politically neutral were also morally neutral. They may have served the greater good of the city, but what tax did they take silently from it? Keeper's may not be as rich in finery and frivolity as the nobility, but thier hidden monuments of ages (deadly shadows shows some good keeper architecture) show that they are far from poor, and that money must come from somewhere. The Hammerites and the Pagan's both see themselves as right and good, doing the work of thier religion and culture, but the rituals and shadowy murders of the Pagans are no more Righteous than the Torturous inquisitions of the Hammerites, this is another aspect of balance, good and evil blend into a moral grey as stone clashes with root and metal clashes with magic. Other themes in Thief are betrayal, (viktoria's betrayal in thief 1, Karras's deception in TMA, Gamal in TDS), redemption, (Viktoria redeems herself in Garret's eyes, and Garret himself seems to consider himself a keeper at the end of TDS). What other themes do you see, and what significance do they bear on the world of TDM?

Okay, well my copy of TDM i just grabbed didn't want to extract so i'll just start it up again, I'm thinking about warming up with a mini mod that I was considering doing, wanted to know hwo much trouble you thought it'd be if I were to do it. I've been playing the doom board game (yes board game) and it has this interesting thing where you draw cards for each marine giving them special traits (scout, close range expert, medic (better healing from medkits)... etc) I was wanting a dialog on regular doom 3 that lets you select some of these traits and implement thier effects, is that alot more work than I'm making it sound like? cuz if so I won't bother and I'll just focus on holy water arrows

Now I'm curious I'll have to look later. I'm against the use of ladders as a neccissary game mechanic anyhow, besides, throwing stuff works just fine, the AI just needs to throw ALOT more agressively the second you TOUCH a ladder (IMHO). same with ropes... It'd be nice if damage interrupted mantleing... BTW: I thought of something that might solve some mantleing exploits: allow the player to only mantle every few seconds. long enough to prevent chain mantleing, but short enough to not seem like an arbitrary imposition, tho from what i've seen the biggest hiccup with mantleing is the rising bug.

Cool beans, just finished looking over some scripting basics, very simple syntax, oop support, and a simple as hell thread model, sounds pretty straight forward, I appreciate the offer of help, I'll be re-downloading the definition files now as I am at work, but since I'm bored with the code project I'm working on here anyways, what the hell :-P(doom pun not intended). I'll get back to you if i have questions or when I feel like I have a solid grasp on the code.

What about Assasin's creed :-P (tho I wouldn't call that a stealth game to be perfectly honest, I'd call it a really good platformer mixed with a really bad hitman) I didn't actually think Ladders would work, but it's definately something I'd criticize a mapper for using in locations in which you are likely to be chased by guards, ESPECIALLY if you would be trapped there... Just seems like poor map design, howeve in his defense: Tech demo. *snorts* I went into this not expecting much.... I've played through the map 8 times... nuff said.

precisely what I was thinking on the city watch, I'm sure I'll need some assistance getting into the API a little bit, but between ya'll and the huge amount of public resources available I'm sure I can get something working here pretty fast, even if it's just an item rename :-P. Is there any developer that is willing to take me under thier wing and work with me via MSN or other IM for a little while until I'm familiar with the D3 environment?

Well I finally got the time to go pick up a copy of D3 on steam (once again it worked fine, thos D3 hates 16:10) I'll post a follow up later but I'm pretty close to the common consensus here: The Good: -Rope Arrows -The "feel" -The in game UI -The speed of the PC (yes I liked it, lrn 2 run) -The Menu UI (LOVED THIS, left it runing while I cooked I loved it so much) The Promising: -Mantleing seems a bit iffy right now but it shows alot of promise, I like the 2 button mantleing.... ALOT, tho i've seen some unreasonably high mantleing manuvers :-) -The trash items and such, the interaction is great, some minor issues setting objects down tho as others have pointed out. -The Look of NPC's - very good models, mediocre animation still The Bad: -Some texturing resolution mismatches, made me think of TDS more that TDM :-P. -Default Gamma. -AI (just hide in the attic, they can't climb ladders!) -the "flatness" of the ambient lighting.

I have been following TDP since mid '06 but until recently have lacked the personal confidence in my programming as well as the time to volunteer to help, I've never worked with doom3 much, but hell, i'm writing a pretty extensive bot for WoW so... I'm sure I'll pick it up :-P... I've got experience in C and most of it's primary derivitives (C, C++, C#, Obj-C) and can pick up anything else that needs to be learned. And I've also done a great deal of map design for quake 1 and HL 1 so at the very least I understand what the mappers are up against and the importance of a good toolset. I've also got some acting Experience and although I can't tell you what I'd be best at filling for a role, I'm sure I could find a place as a noble's guard or something (I don't have the deep voice that would be suited to city watch) my at home mics are kinda crappy but living on campus I'm sure I can get access to a recording studio and talk to the local broadcasting students.

I must admit to loving the "source" of the quote, and yeah, the second time i read the into I was laughing so hard at the rather obviously satirical connotations of the quote in reference to board members... anyhow, props, so far my ONLY real gripe is that I didn't get to see much watery arrowy action.

It's been a while since that news page changed, over 2 months actually, a good news article could simply be a culmination of things decided on the forums and maybe a quick FAQ cuz there are LOTS of questions oft asked on the forums that suck up threads...

i was thinking you should have a support paypal tho, pay 5$ US or so and be able to be testing the latest builds with the team and provide feedback in the dev forums. I'd pay simply cuz I wanna help... course youd have to put stipulations on ppl, like make them sign a non disclosure agreement so they cant leak crap without being sued. anyhow just a thought to earn the team money.

simple, ramp up the txture gamma.