Darkness_Falls

Hey Degineth - Thanks a lot for trying so hard to help us out with this! You've put so many tired hours in to make us happy, and that's definitely appreciated! I know it's early in the development, and that our team leads' main desire is to have the internal site built, but I thought I'd offer some constructive feedback. Based on your mockups, I feel we're still a ways off from having the a final version that we'd all be happy with and hope you can understand this -- despite the number of hours you've put in. I've built a few other websites myself, so I know it can be a time-consuming process. DarkMod members: Stop reading this if you're bored with my post already or don't agree that I should give feedback at this point If it's any consolation, I prefer the direction of the bluer site. Here are my quick thoughts, though. (I know this process is going to suck for you, since everyone will have different ideas.) I'm not a team lead; so take my thoughts for what they're worth. If nothing else, or if my teammates don't agree with anything I say, just take these things as feedback and do with them what you will. I'm only trying to help. Some things I mention have already been mentioned by others. In regards to the blue site: (1) The colors seem a little too "Thief 3," in general, for my tastes. The powder blue in the top title definitely reminds me of T3. Also, the font colors in the body of the page are a little dark and hard to read on the black background. (2) The pictures on the left, on the News page, are a little dark. I understand the attempt at doing an effect there, but the images just don't pop out enough. I'm also trying to figure out if there's a pattern to the images used there (as far as what chracter gets posted with what news item -- like, are they icons?), but I don't see one. That's a bit misleading to my eye. (3) The powder blue horizontal line between news items doesn't seem necessary. Adds clutter. Separation between news items could be improved, in general. Indents, etc., could be used. (4) I like the initial functionality you're building for the Gallery page. I hope you can expand on this idea more, refine it more and make it faster to navigate. Maybe even add an "expand all" button so broadband users don't have to expand each category individually. I must admit, though, that I miss the "immediate gratification" I feel on our existing site where you immediately start seeing concept artwork and the such when you click the Gallery link. No need to go into 10 different folders to view screens and concepts. (5) Is there a way to pre-load the top menu bar rollovers and cache them in the user's browser so there's no pause in the image changes when you hover your mouse over them? Obviously Flash would do it, but I know you're trying not to use Flash at this point. (6) The top banner could use some graphical work. Do you have a portfolio of artwork you've done so we can gauge your artistic capabilities? If you're fairly new at Photoshop or creating orignal artwork, I'm sure one of us could work on the banner and other graphics to help out. (7) I'm with you, though. I can totally see our site in Flash... but I know several of my teammates hate Flash for some reason *sigh*

Before I go any further on this, let me know if you think I'm on the right track with the design of this machine. I stopped adding details to it and gave it some quick color. I haven't done very much on this yet, as I don't want to waste time doing something nobody likes. I know the coloring and everything is pretty crude here; just focus on the shape, design and functionality of it. The final will look more polished. Do you think I'm going the right direction with this? Keep in mind we'll likely need to have many different machines, so let me at least know if you think this would be usable in our Thief universe. There will always be more time to do other machine concepts/shapes/etc. PS: That's an energy beam going between the power thingys. I remembered Thief 2 had an energy beam between two lamp posts or something on one of the levels. I liked it. This is "in the spirit" of that. EDIT: Please also make any suggestions you have for this endeavor. PS: I know there's no depth to the drawing; I wasn't gonna go there yet.

TYROT - Excellent! Looking forward to seeing a 3-D model of it GIMG - Practice, m'friend. Lots of practice. You can do it. Your mine drawing was a good blend of the two (technical and artistic) I thought. Keep it up! Sparhawk - You should! Do the things you enjoy in life. I personally wish I could model stuff. I will try to learn that, but don't have the software tools right now. Some day... some day. Kfmccall - Yes! If you could incorporate this into a mansion setting of some sort, that'd be sweet.

I was at a local restaurant. They had a nice fountain, I decided to draw it. Here it is, in case we'd like to model it: The original sketches (left). Haha, I ran out of paper, so I had to draw it in pieces. I put it back together in PhotoShop and completed it (right): And then I decided to color it in PhotoShop: And here's a sketch of a fountain I created on my own on lunch break at work. I obviously drew inspiration from the restaurant one. I never finished it, but thought I'd post anyways: Let me know if you need higher resolution (larger) images on any of these. I've got them. My first attempt at modeling it - 1 My first attempt at modeling it - 2

I know, the jerks who had the house before me had something mounted on the wall there. They decided to take that thing with them and didn't do a very good job of patching up the wall. Jerks And I've been lazy to fix.

I wanted to post these sooner, but I don't have a digital camera. Had to borrow one. I know -- I'm in the dark ages. Anyways, I thought I'd post these in case anyone wanted to model them. I like their design, especially the mirrors. Not sure how old they are, but they're from my grandma who passed away in 2000 at age 96. She apparently had them a long time. I'd like to think they're 100 years old (maybe more?), but I have no clue. My aunt said grandma had them a long, long time. Besides the fact that I think they'd fit well in a Thief setting, I'd of course think it'd be cool to see these when I play. There are 3 pictures of each dresser. I only display the first one of each, but clicky for the other 2 of each. The mirrors tilt up or down on a horizontal axis. The axis is where the gold-colored metal pegs are screwed into the wood on either side of the mirror. The screws can be hand-tightened to the desired tension. The dressers are symmetrical. That is, what you see on the left is what you see on the right. Sorry I couldn't move my TV at the time, but since they're symmetrical, it shouldn't matter. The men's dresser has small drawers (one on far left, one on far right) on top of the desk part. Hopefully you can see in pics. The lady's dresser has two small drawers on top of the desk part, under the mirror. These small drawers are in addition to, of course, the larger drawers underneath the desktops which are more clearly visible. The sitting bench in front of the lady's goes with the dresser. However, that white fabric didn't come on it. My ex put that on. I'm not sure what the original fabric was or would've been. I have higher resolution pics of each, if desired. Thanks for considering these for DarkMod. Sorry they're not better angles/lighting. I was in a hurry when I took these. The first one seems to be a "lady's" version of the dresser. It's smaller, more petite looking: Dresser - Lady's 2 Dresser - Lady's 3 And the second one seems to be a "men's" dresser. Much larger and bulkier: Dresser - Men's 2 Dresser - Men's 3

Coolness. However, you say "no Flash," Sparhawk, but Macromedia's site says Flash is "installed on more than 97% of the Internet-enabled desktops and many popular devices, Macromedia Flash is the world’s most pervasive rich client." Not to belittle Linux users AT ALL, but aren't they used to site's not showing up the way the webmaster intended by now, considering the pervasiveness of Flash? Right now our external site is pretty static. Kind've lifeless. It's a great static site, but lacks life. I agree it needs to be spiced up with some Flash. It seems to me there are hardly any professional sites out there these days that don't incorporate Flash in some respect, especially on sites that have anything to do with gaming. With Flash, things can be livened up without being overdone. It's all about implementation and Degineth sounds like he has a good knowledge/appreciation of T1/T2's subtleness. And as with many sites on the internet, perhaps a "non-Flash" version could be created to run parallel to our main Flash-enabled site. If this wouldn't be too much info to maintain. EDIT: I don't care what gets used internally, but I don't think we should rule Flash out for the external site.

Sweet! Sounds fun, but Springheel, Fingernail and others are the leads who will have to decide. A couple questions I'm sure will come up are: do you like Thief 1 & 2, and how familiar are you with the look, feel and ambience of them? We'll also need to consider things from a maintenance standpoint. Springheel and others will probably want to know how easy it will be to update/add content.

True, true This is ultimately for the FMs. They'll need to know what we have in it eventually.

There were some lights and security systems in T2 that you could track back (via wires along the walls) to a light switch or shut off circuit switch. I feel having wires along some walls were necessary in T2, and will be for DarkMod -- for certain situations and missions. It was fun trying to find the source of certain things. Not sure if this really applies to what's being worked on here, but thought I'd mention.

Thanks, G!(IMG)

Having more fun with it: Speaking of this tweaked pic, I put dust particles in the light. Are we going to be able to have dust particle effects like they did in Thief: Deadly Shadows?

Ahh, they're not really supposed to be cracks - although I did have a version with cracks and chunks taken out of the skull that I deleted. Those markings on #3 are supposed to be dark stains of some sort. How would cracks or stains be done? I'm not sure, but I guess it would be like other stuff: with textures and normal maps? I'm no 3D model expert, though, so I'd leave that technical stuff to the likes of oDDity and others

Something about his cheek (shape), upper teeth/jaw (too long?) and eye sockets (not mean enough) bothered me a might. What do you think of these very slight changes? (Compare 1 vs. 2). I would've created an animated GIF to make seeing the changes easier, but I don't have the tools. I was just messing around with the 3rd one, but thought I'd post anyways. 1. Original: 2. My Mod: 3. Just Playing:

Yep, looks awesome! Note to the team: Just my two cents here, but in releasing screenshots of DarkMod characters and such, we should make sure to leave a few surprises. Basically, don't post all the characters we come up with on our website. Especially with haunts and undead. Part of the thrill (and horror) of encountering characters like this is seeing them for the first time; or wondering what's around the next corner. Guards and civilians may not be such a big deal. But creatures, ghosts and woo, I feel, should be protected more. Feel free to post this one and others, I just think we should be careful is all

Wow, this site is creepy... ... I LOVE IT! Hey look, it's our thief (haha):

I thought you might say that There's just something amiss about the animation, but it's all good. I could try to explain more, but it's a demo so I don't want to say anything to discourage you. I look forward to seeing your work for the DarkMod!

For the 3rd animation, which shows more realism than the first two, it needs some work to be a fully realistic animation. The upper body/head motions seem good, needing a little improvement, but the lower body/legs need more work. For example, when running the legs seem to be pulliing the upper body along because the upper body is too far back. The upper body should lean forward more while running. It's good to have you aboard though. Good luck!

Yep! Awesome work again.

"Sweep the leg, sensei!" J/k. Regardless. there should probably be high and low swings for variety, anyways... no? But I guess maybe this one's too low? Should his boots be so pointy in the top part of them in front? It'd kind've cool, but maybe looks slightly out-of-place. Still, you rock with this kind've stuff. "Where does he get such wonderful toys??!"

LOL. But what about the arrow's response to the birdcall be a result of magic? That way it's not totally necessary to explain. I don't think the arrow should light up from 100 ft away -- that'd act too much like T3's loot glint ... Rather, if you get into the general vicinity of where you think the arrow is (within 10 feet?) and blow the whistle, it will react. It's not meant to make finding the noisemaker totally easy Also not meant to be totally pointless. Just a help for when it falls into a dark, dark corner. Bah, I'm cool without it. Was just responding to your thoughts of it being hard to find, even though you found the search fun.

PS: The arrow in my noisemaker arrow drawings are blue in color. I wasn't saying they should be that color for the game, of course. They would need to be colored/textured appropriately. Since the internal mechanics discussion seems to have settled down, I'll work on refining the exterior design/texture of the arrow for the concepts. Although, 3-D modellers should feel free to try their hand at it in the interim, if they feel so inclined.

Oh, excellent then Sounds like my recollection of T2 is a bit skewed (hehe). To make our noisemakers easier to find, perhaps we should give our thief a birdcall whistle that can be used at any time. The sound frequencies eminating from the birdcall would resonate inside of the noisemaker chamber (if the arrow is laying nearby), causing it to subtly vibrate on the floor. The vibrations would give off a faint sound, making it possible to hear where it is. Or maybe the birdcall whistle makes the noisemaker give off a faint glow (magic) Okay, I'm kind've kidding. But part of me thinks this would be kind've cool, too.

I agree; good thinking GIMG! Failing the air compression method, I like this alternative better than a wind-up lever process. (It *might've* looked kind've funny to see our thief winding up an arrow like it's a music box. But if we really wanted the wind-up, we could go with my earlier suggestion and mount the lever so that it's flush with the arrow cylinder and you pry your finger underneath and lift it up to start winding.) I should say, though, that any of these three options for re-setting a noisemaker arrow (pulling the end out; winding it up; or twisting the housing) would be fun to do. Thanks Domarius. The old Thief 2 noisemaker didn't make much sense to me. It bothered me at first, but i got used to it. I think deep down, though, I still wished there was more of a 'logical' explanation for their sounds; considering they were so mechanical in nature. I wasn't happy with thinking there was some sort of magic dust that was sprinkled on them. (Being facetious.) Doh! Yes!!! Thanks for catching me on that. I have no clue why I've always said "broadband." I think that's what I read the arrows to be when I first played Thief, and it kind've just stuck with me. Duuuuuuuuuude Thanks again! I do enjoy it. I agree that most things don't need a presentation of the innards, but for noisemakers -- where we're discussing whether to use beads/ball-ball bearings, or clockwork, or fireworks, or whatever -- I thought it might be nice to bring logic (rather than magic) into my explanation for the clicking sound. Afterall, I'm trying to sell my idea so of course I'm going to try to bring explanations to the plate I guess I'm just used to concept artwork for Star Wars and stuff where external designs take into account the internal components. Trust me, though, I know it's not necessary for everything. If I start doing steampunk concepts, most of my designs that I come up with probably won't have any mechanical rhyme or reason. Good point. I noticed Thief 2 doesn't have an arrow tip on their's. Makes sense that you don't want it lodged into a wall, showing where it came from. Maybe some code can be created to make the noisemaker fall in a random fashion to the floor when it hits something, so it doesn't reveal which direction it came from. I say this because I think in T2 it usually fell straight down, unless you shot it from an angle. I think our's should have some sort of tip on it, though -- even if it's just a very dull arrowhead. It looks kind've funny without anything...

Yeah, not too thiefy. When I first saw them it made me think of a helmut used in Star Wars... :\