Fidcal

Probably ignore this - it changes anyway depending on the last selection. What I meant was... well screenshot HERE OK - looks MUCH better! Hope you can get that on the add selector too. I won't quibble the button widths etc. Better big than microscopic. Tooltips? I'd noticed the question mark and thought you were going to add something later! Very useful. Mind you my mouse covers part! This is the Standard Windows (extra large) pointer I'm using if you want to try it. I'll try another. Now there's an alternative selector box, waits politely for selection; don't know if it can scroll a big list though. OK, I've changed my mouse to 'Windows Standard Large' which is a bit better. Even the standard mouse seems to obscure those tooltips somewhat but at least now I can move about sufficient to make out the tooltip. Hang on - here's a bug... If you click the 'Apply' button in the 'Edit Response Effect' dialog when all fields are still empty then it crashes out DR with a bad memory reference. Wait... I got this even when I left an optional field. For example, I selected the effect 'Apply Stim' then _SELF in the target box then stim type 16. The tooltip for 'source' says 'optional, defaults to self' so I left it. Click Apply and bad memory reference closes down DR. I can give you more info but you should be able to duplicate it. OK, on to your next post... I see what you mean about the instant selection as unlike say, a normal menu selection, there is no confirming mouse click but just a release - well, the release is the confirm I guess. What about a combo box instead for the add selector? BTW, by 'pointer' I didn't mean a C pointer but just a generic use of the word meaning a variable holding the value of the last used position in the array or whatever structure you're using to hold the list. Maybe you don't need one and it is sorted for you by a function that just links the selector to the end of the list. Anyway if not, on to the positioning with separate buttons. I hadn't appreciated that the selector list can't be wider then the button! I was thinking a wide list could pop up from a narrow button like giant menus can drop down from tiny text. Maybe you can pinch space here and there. Slightly widen the overal minimum dialog size, slightly narrow the width of the editing section. Even then it might be a victim of large font dpi. If not, leave it as one column. I think it better as one column with the add button the left than two column with the add button below. But both work, I just think the former is immediately obvious; the latter needs a head scratch the first time or two. BTW, is there a max stim name length? Target Reached seems to be about the biggest at the moment.

greebo - this in response to the previous post - I'll read your last one next... Not sure what... Oh I see, a separate type button to select and then the add button adds that type. Does this mean the selector button itself cannot trigger a new entry but only change an existing one? Why can it not just be pointed at the blank next space? That could already be set up with default values so effectively is it not just changing the name from [blank] to something and moving a pointer up? But you're saying these things can't move a pointer up or anything else they are just linked to change an entry in a list and nothing more? Mmmm.... If so, I know this is a messy programming fix but if you use a timer to read the entry in the 'next position' and when it is no longer empty then trigger the changes needed, set default values, move the pointer up? You've probably already got timers set up and can piggy back this, eg, if stimlist[endpos+1] <> "" then etc... Otherwise, if not and you go with this separate button then conceptually I would maybe remove the word 'type' and move the add button in there so it 'reads' along the row: [Add:] [(name)] so it might then kinda read as [Add:] [Frob] or [Add:] [sound] then maybe move the Remove stim button to the left under add or centre? One solution is a mild bodge for the programmer but extra neat for the user; the other is a quick fix for the programmer but acceptable even for a nit-picking soandso like me!

Steady on! Here's a bit more on the previous one to chew on while I get the new one! ...... If I drag the interface down to the bottom of the screen I see the type button then pops up the list above it and with its start pointing at frob, the first entry in the list but with a huge gap above to scroll up into if you see what I mean. Guess that's how the add would be. Maybe the add and remove buttons could go above the entity stims list on the same line as the type button. Also that very wide type button and selector list with a lengthy narrow list on it seems not the nicest display. What other options are there? If that width is retained then it would be nice to have columns: 6 x 5 is neater than a long list of 30. What kind of selectors are available? There is no obvious grouping of stim types so a 'start menu' type of sub-menuing system doesn't make much sense. I'd be inclined to make the button half the width. Come to think why are some of the stim inputs so wide? The time interval is like big enough to last till the universe collapses. I'm being picky now but you probably just set them all default to begin with till you sorted out what went where. Spaces as separators - I've got a horrible deja vu feeling somebody already told me that the other day - probably you! The 'wait' between effects is probably not worth pursuing then - it's excellent anyway that one can trigger multiple effects.

Dark Radiant v.0.8.1 of 18 Apr 07, S & R interface.... Stim tab: All text spacing shows fine now and can get 99999 visible in milliseconds box! Won't quibble but what happens if the timer is set to 0 9 999 99999 ? No wait, I can just see another 9 so at least 999999 milliseconds. Maybe you plan capping those last three. I read through the wiki s & r yesterday but will need to study it a bit more. One thing, 'use bounds' seems to be equivalent to what I call 'contact' yet it can only be enabled if the radius box is checked. If the radius box is checked then what do you get? Or if you set a radius of 10 and set the 'use bounds' box? If the radius extends beyond the bounds here and there? Is the bounds box on say a broken cart, all the outline we see in DR which seems to be the physics contacts limits in-game? Wish I could test these to see what happens. As an aside, what is the equivalent of a Dromed 'marker' in DM? I mean an entity with no properties at all except coordinates and dimensions? To which one might add a stim. Is it just a matter of creating a brush and adding now draw texture? No! - to answer my own question as a stim has to add to an entity. Regarding the auto default of frob when you click the add button, what would happen if you just duplicate the type button, rename it 'add' and move it down to replace the current add, then make it point to the next free place in the list? Sounds like it wouldn't take more than a couple of minutes to set up. It still niggles me to ask for the menu and get a default meal. Response tab : All text spacing fine. Now I see how the effects are added and it's great. Never thought of that. Yes, really good. And all the fields change according to the effect chosen. Nice. I like that you can select any entity in the map from a list (though how it will be in a big map with hundreds of entities I don't know!) What would be the format/separators for coordinates in say teleport? x,y,z ? In teleport I see what you mean by 'origin' but it does sound a bit odd in this context; maybe 'new origin'? And you can have multiple effects from the one response so you could teleport in a new entity and triggeer it to start doing something and throw the player back four feet and play a sound. Fantastic. This is virtually a Dromed conversation except they all trigger 'together'. Actually in the code they must be carried out one after the other even if it's only a few milliseconds? I mean, once the response is triggered then each effect is 'started' one after the other? But each one would not wait for the previous to complete its operation. Is there any way to introduce a 'wait n milliseconds till next effect' effect that the mapper could put between different effects? This would be really powerful. Or even 'wait till last effect has completed' but I doubt that would be possible. Does DM have an equivalent to the Dromed conversation? Must have I guess. Custom stim tab : Still fine, no problem. Overall now it's looking really good and all the main features are in place. Snap to grid button and menu looking fine too.

OK - Just about to get some sleep so I'll download this in the morning. But did a quick check and see that double click to edit response effects is already there in the previous one! Maybe add it also to the right click menu?

Yes, I'd recommend a snap to grid button and also add it to the grid menu. Those are the two places I searched first so probably most users would. The Dark Radiant link on the wiki is fine.

Yes, for reference I have a desktop res of 1152 x 864 (bit odd but it means I can have Dromed at 1024 x 768. Dromed is VERY non-standard and.. well, it's a long story. And I have a DPI setting of 150. Here are the screen shots... stim response custom I'll take a look at the wiki. I was there earlier looking for DR controls to find a button for snap to grid. I found the shortcut but no button (because my mouse covered the popups!) But I couldn't find the wiki DR controls so it kinda put me off. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

OK, looking through the new s & r interface on DR v.0.8.1 of 15 Apr 2007 (see link in 'itches' thread) On the stims tab: The h,m,s,ms boxes want moving a couple of characters to the right to allow room for the heading 'Activation Time' with large Windows fonts dpi. On mine it is truncated to 'Activation Tin'. For the same reason the milliseconds box wants to be one digit wider as I can only squeeze in two digits. Can you explain what the following actually are... 'Activation Time' - I presume this is the time to elapse from mission start before the stim starts firing? 'Timer restarts after firing' - Does this mean if UNchecked then it fires only once? So it needs checking to enable the timer interval (cycle)? 'Timer reloads' ... n times' - Dunno 'Timer waits for start' - Is this the timer for start of the intervals so if checked it actually starts the timing of the firing cycles from the Activation time? If UNchecked - is 'spawn time' what I call mission start? 'Use bounds' - Is this for an actual contact stim? What do you get if Radius is UNchecked? What would be an example of a falloff Exponent value? 'Duration' is presumably the time it keeps firing so if UNchecked it will fire indefinitely through the mission or until the stim entity is destroyed. 'Chance' ? Some kind of random firing? How is it defined? Once in n? So if you enter 5 it will fire once in 5 times but randomly? Response Tab: 'Chance' - same for stim above? 'Random effects' Note the left side of this box too wants moving to the right two or three characters as I see it truncated to 'Random Effec' - Presumably a selection of effects will be entered here and chosen at random each time triggered? 'Response Effects' - Still baffled how this will look when finished and how all the various effects fields will be entered in one box? Or are you going to add more fields later? Custom stims tab : Can't fault this - it works fine. Can't think of anything to add unless you put an advert for coca cola in the blank space! This is now better than Dromed where you have to put new names in elsewhere then reload the mission! It's looking better and better and the tabbed panels absolutely perfect.

yeah - that one's about one pixel wider all round than it really is - I had to adjust it in paintshop pro because psp showed the standard Windows cursor instead of the current one. My eyesight is not good so I use one of the larger Windows cursors. I think there is a transparent one but I've never known this problem before. Not serious if it can't be fixed easily.

Recommend if possible the popup help be moved higher to the right to avoid being covered by large mouse cursors, see HERE

Thanks, got the new download. Hey! The lockup with city map problem has gone! Just proves my motto 'Never do today what you can put off till tomorrow then with a bit of luck you might not have to do it at all' Only had a quick look at the new S & R interface but it is progressing very nicely. I like the new custom stim name input - and I see it gets added to the list. I hadn't realized that the number in the entity's stims list is a different number to the stim number. Anyway, I'll report later (manyana? ) when I've had a chance to look at it more. I'll probably be asking what some of the stuff does...

Ha! I never noticed that! Obvious really. All my other folders on that drive begin with a capital letter. So it should be a simple matter of adjusting the sort to be not case specific.

You have to click a menu then the full hourglass appears. Once it appears it will always appear when the mouse hovers over the menu bar area. It does not lock Windows and you can still click DR's close button (I never thought to try editing anything in the orthoview or anything)

Yes, in Preferences > Map Files

Opened city_area map in DR (v.0.8.1 of 12 Apr 07) last night to have a quick look then closed DR. This morning I opened DR and the last map is opened as normal. But I cannot use any menu option. If I move the mouse over say file menu to get 'new map' or open another [EDIT - it needs a click on a menu to start the error] then DR locks up with the hourglass when I move over the menu bar. Oddly, it's not a complete lockout as I can close it with the X button top right but get the 'not responding' error. I 'only' have 512Mb RAM so maybe that's the problem? City is probably bigger than any map I've opened in DR. In the end I had to edit user.xml to remove the city_area last map name, then I could open and use DR normally. Presumably I can repeat this so if you want error output, log etc. then let me know.

A curiosity I've noticed is that the DR (v 0.8.1 of 12.4.07) open dialog sorts doom3 to the end even when sorted in alpha order, see HERE Maybe it's because I have that one folder named just 'c'. Also I've mentioned before that closing any dialog in DR reverts focus to the last program used not back to DR like all other programs do. I'm finding this is especially noticeable (and mildly annoying after a lot of occasions) because I am often writing while referring back to dialogs. Correction - I just found that the 'about' dialog does not do this - the only one I've found that doesn't. Also the error only seems to happen when Alt-tab switching between programs. Compare the shortcuts list on the same menu. Open your text editor or your web browser whatever and Dark Radiant. In DR, open the shortcuts lists or almost any dialog, Alt-tab back to the text editor to make notes; Alt-tab back to DR, you can correctly see the dialog with DR below it. Close the dialog. You find the text editor comes to the top not DR.

Tried the damage stim on a couple of objects, made active and with large radius and magnitude but no effect on the player. What am I doing wrong? I've tried it with and without 'use bounds' checked though I don't know what it means unless it enables radius when checked and contact when not. Also tried it with and without 'timer restarts after firing' which again I am not sure what it means unless it means the stim only fires once at the start of the mission when unchecked? Regarding fire, now you have the magnitude qualifier is it possible to add a response to the player with a large enough magnitude so the player is not harmed by carrying a low magnitude torch but at least cannot walk though a raging inferno?

I had looked at this before briefly but just had another session with the s & r interface. Just to confirm this is DR v.0.8.1 dated 12 Apr 07. And the file tdm_response_effects.def dated 10 Apr 07 I have extracted into the doom3\darkmod\def folder. The following is what I can and cannot do as is, and I assume this is as it should be at this stage... Selecting an existing entity which already has inherited s & r now allows normal click selection to highlight. Selected inherited stims now shows stim properties feinted out. Selected inherited responses show the active field checked but nothing else and no effects information. I can add an existing stim, eg, fire, to an entity eg, a barrel, set it active and adjust its radius, magnitude, etc, but not yet been able to detect it in game. That is, the player receives no damage from it in game. I don't know if the fire damage response has been added to the player. Looking at info player start does not show any stims or responses. I can add an existing response to an entity, eg, add water stim to a cart, set it active (and chance and random effects can be checked) and add the single effect 'let react to stim' but nothing else. So it's looking good, I had no problems with it. The tabbing works great and seems the perfect way to separate stims and responses while keeping them together if you see what I mean!

Yes, that was my instinct since the error does not happen for you it will probably go away when I put in a later install. it's no problem for me.

OK, the output in a DOS window is HERE

The error report screenie probably won't help much HERE because it only shows the start of a lengthy scrollable report. The radiant log is HERE The other text output referred to in the screenie I couldn't find and I think it had been removed from the temp folder before I got to it. So I re-ran DR and got another HERE - so it might not exactly match (though I just clicked a light in both cases then exited) but I can do the whole thing again tomorrow if that's crucial.

Dark Radiant 0.8.1 of 12 Apr 2007 I get an error message when I close Dark Radiant if I have selected anything. If I just open DR then close it then no error. If I open, it, select an item, then close DR, then I get the error. If I open, select an item then deselect it and close DR I still get the error. Tried it in two maps and its the same. Doesn't even need a map - just any entity to select. The error produces a very long report but I can't copy and paste it. It also refers to a text file output with a ton of data in it but it doesn't look like the same data. I can upload that if it is of any use. The errror does not seem to affect actually using DR as far as I can tell but just keeps appearing each time I exit.

Thanks greebo - I see that now. I was happy with the selector colour anyway but thought it might change the colour of the text that shows the dimensions and coordinates which seemed to be the same red. I'll look at the bug tracker later after I give this more thought. I'm used to seeing the full properties of every selection, coords, orientation, size, texture, type, everything in one section. [EDIT] OK - forget this I now found the colour under brush vertices so I've set it bright yellow. See how I get on with that. BTW I'm getting an error every time I close DR - I'll post later

OK - got it. Did the texture tool too but can make no sense of that yet and the keys have no effect I can see but I'll leave that for now and assume it's working right, think it's too advanced for me at this stage as I've no idea what it does. There is a thread but I can't understand any of it!

Colour preferences : I changed Selected Brush to pale blue and Select Brush Camera to yellow but both still show as red. I was trying to change it because I'm sometimes finding it difficult to read brush dimensions and coordinates and would prefer to turn that off. Can those values be read anywhere else? I can't see them on the status bar. Can they be shown on the entity inspector?