oDDity

I seem to be the only person whio hasn't seen the article) This is the UK version of PC Gamer, right?

Just right. Have you got a normal map yet? I could generate a normal map for anyone who wants them. Just upload the high and low rez objects to the FTP. I may wait till I get my 1MB DSL back next week though, 56k is really painful.

Well, I've long been pestering everyone to convert to LW...and t would help if we all used the same app right, then we'd all be talking the same language) I'll write it up in the documentaion section then. Now I think I'll get cracking with a bunch of static mesh models that need to be done for the mansion pack, and actually get them in the game. I'm getting really bored doing characters now, so I need the change- I must have done about a dozen in the last six months.

The chair is way too big)

I managed to get it sorted out, I didn't need any .def file actually, just wrote a material shader. I got the lightwave normal map plugin working (I just needed to get the LW8 version) so I didn't have to bother pissing about with renderbump. I can tell you now how to get a complete textured, normaled, speced static mesh into Doom using Lightwave, but since no one else here uses LW, there isn't much point As for getiing animated characters into the game, I'll cross that bridge when I come to it...

What I did to use renderbump was make a low and high poly version of a model (obviously) put them in a folder models/mapobjects/object/testobject.lwo Then I wrote this shader and put it in the mapobjects material file: models\mapobjects\object\testobject { renderbump -size 256 256 -trace 0.03 -colorMap -aa 1 models\mapobjects\object\testobject_local.tga models\mapobjects\object\testobject_hp.lwo diffusemap models\mapobjects\object\testobject_d.tga bumpmap models\mapobjects\object\testobject_local.tga, specularmap models\mapobjects\object\testobject_s.tga } What I'm not sure of is where to put this shader, or what to call it at the top of the code. I read on the doom forums that you put the name of the surface of the low poly object u there, but i the material files the doom devs always write the path an the name of the object what I get when I run renderbump is this WARNING: Couldn't load image: testobject surface 0, shader testobject renderBump = (no action) 0.01 seconds for renderBump SO you write a .def fle as well? fr the object or for the map you put the object in?

Yes, it's great texturing, render it with some decent lighting to show of the textures better. The cushion on the seat and back didn't have to be modeled in though, the normal map would have sorted that out. The general rule is never to use more polys that absolutely necessary. They soon add up when building a level, and the less polys each individual object has, the more the level designer can put in the room without straining people's systems. quote " maybe you can't see that, because of the perspective, but the green-leg isn't just a simple cube. At first it's a simple cube, then it get's smaller and at the end it get's thicker again" Exactly, that's an unecessary expense) you could just taper the leg from top to bottom and have 2 triangles per side. Beveling detail can also be done with normal maps, and no one is really going to notice the base or chair legs anyway. Just little things like that you should be thinking about when making the low poly versions of meshes.

I have, but they're all 30 meg video tuts, and I'm stuck on 56k for at least a week.

With simple geometric shapes such as a chair, it's just as well to rebuild the low poly mesh from scratch using the high res version as a template, it 's much neater. Remember, when using normals and spec maps you really don't need any detail whatsoever on the chair, just basic squares, rectangles and 4 sided pyramids. For example the chair section I've marked in red need only contain 28 triangles, whereas that seems to have about 100. The leg I marked in green only needs 12 triangles, the seat should only have 12, etc. I reckon that entire low res chair should only have about 150 polys. Feel free to get carried away with the high res object and pile on as many million polys as you desire, but the low res cage should be as low as possible, the RTShadow system in games like Doom don't like high poly counts.

Has ayone managed to get static models in-game, complete with normal maps? Normal maps generated by ZBrush don't seem to work properly in Doom, I think because they use tangent space instead of local space, the model I imported was 0,0,0 black everywhere except where the lights hit it. The Orb normal map program site seems to be down since all the links are broken, my lightwave notmal map plugin seems to have mysteriously stopped working, and I can get renderbunmp tool in Doom to cooperate either! :/ SO if anyone has generatd their own normal maps for an objects and it worked ok in-game, please spill the beans. Also on poly counts, it states somwher on the forums here that character models can be up to 7-8k or something, but I think that's way too many. The model I imported was only about 4k and my perfomace went way down, even though it was the only model in an empty room. All of the Doom models are very low res - that's the point of using normal maps in the first place..you don't need high res models.

I'll do the servants, 'various small sculptures', the globe, and bits and pievces of furniture. A lot of this stuff can be knocked up pretty quickly. I'll quit work on the hammers/bots etc since we don't actually need any of that stuff at this stage, and get to work on these things.

THis is different enough from the concept art I think. Feel free to add any suggestions or drawings, I'm by no means certain where to take this next, the concept art has no details really. I'm not even sure if this is supposed to be a worker bot, but that big claw wouldn't be good for anything except lifting and moving objects. IT has the legs attached to the head there, but that doesn't make any sense. Of curse this thing couldn't actually balance in RL, but that doesn't matter. since it'll never be built.

You mean the finished game model? A long time I would suspect. Doing the high res model is only 10% of the workflow. I still have to trawl various websites and forums trying to get the information I need to work out how to get characters into the game, and no animations have even been started yet. Heh, I've only just perfected getting characters into UT2K3, and now I have to start all over again for Doom. Still, I've finished a lot of Nightblade work, I've only a couple more models to do for that, so I sould have a decent amount of time to devote to this.

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This is based on concept art for T2 bots (the actual T2 models looked nothing like it in the end) Not finished modeling it yet obvioiusly.

I couldn't find the official Builder WIP thread that Sprinheeel started, so I'll use this one. THis is knid of an amalgamation of the above model had the above concept art. THese aren't the final textures sine they'll have to be redone for the low poly model anyway. Springheel - don't get too upset that I'm not sticking ridgidly to the concept art, but I want to bring a little of the orginal Thief games in to the models as well. I only changed the boots amd bracers on this guy anyway, which, let's face it, weren't that well fleshed out in the concept art any way.

Now be fair - I did make a post saying I would be gone for a few weeks. I was gone longer than expected, I had stuff to do in RL and I was busy making 5 characters for Nightblade, and I hav been working on Darkmod items as well, which I've posted elsewhere. Anyway, I was under the impression that you guys had TONS of stuff do do that isn't affected by lack of models? I've a lot of catching up do do on tings around here I expect.

Yes, it's great, I vote for it. Having said that, without the title, I would have thought it was a spy orb, rather than a flashbomb.

Heh, yet another reason for lightwave. The subpatch function is very handy, not so sore on the computer, and you can eep everything in separate layers as well. That priest model is only 30k, and most of that is in the little details which you'd hardly miss.

Yes, but that's just copying Thief warts 'n all. Thief was not a perfect game, they came up with solutions that they would probably have done differently had they been making the game with todays technology. There's no point letting ourselves be hampered or constrained by the same difficulties they had six years ago.

Ok, brainstorm away, but we only have sight and sound to work with, and if you rule out sound you're left with sight - i.e, a gem of some sort. ..unless we use Garrett (or whatever he's called) himself as the lightmeter. You look down at yourself, and see how much shadow you're in, I'm sure it would be no more technically difficult than a lightgem icon. Of course in real life it' possible fr the top half of your body to be brightly lit and the bottom half in shadow, but for game purposes, there will only be one amount of shadow for the whole body. You're already going to program body awareness in right? So we may as well put it to good use.

This is, yet again, one I made earlier, it is inspired by the actual concept art for T1, this is the style I would like to see for this mod, rather than the new T3 styple. Don't worry about the texture or missing feet, the painted on beard etc, the model is only half done, it's just the general concept you should be thinking about

I dont think we should use the hammer symbol. you know copyright and all that. What about the star in a cog symol I did on the builder priests belt buckle?

Well we can argue over whether we 'think' it would work or not, but let's just try it at some point and see) I think you underestimate how many sounds the human ear and brain are capable of keeping track of subconsiously. As long as it's very distinctive and subtle, I can't see a problem with it, and of course it wouldn't be necessary to play the sound at all in a fully lit room where it's obvious that you're not in darknes, it's only necessary where the light falls under a certain brightness, so the scale of soft to loud wouldn't have to be that great. IMO, no type of darkness meter is required at all, since it's obvious 95% of the time from your surroundings, and if you're ever in doubt, just don't let guards look in your direction. I think the Thief fans will be expecting innovation from us, not conservatism.

Yes, well spotted guys, it is just a human with parts of the skin removed and a skeleton thrown in, and yes I did just throw on some procedural textures) I'm very lazy, and procedurals are just so much quicker and easier, I get that 'procedural look' crit a lot. Like I said though, it's just one I had knocked up months ago as a concept and needs a lot of working up. Don't worry I'll have it looking a lot squeltchier and gross the next time you see it. You''ll be able to smell it.