Question Regarding Ai

[SplaTtzZ]

One of the best FM's i ever played was Equilibrium. The fact that you as Garret were up against other thieves created some very tense moments; i would spend ages staring at my screen trying to find out where my enemies were.

 

I'm wondering whether the Darkmod will also allow for enemy A.I that has much the same stealth ability as Garret does. I've played through Doom 3 before, and noticed many areas of complete shadow; where you can't see any of your enemies. I suppose it could be as simple as putting an enemy in one of those areas. Failing that however, would it be possible to implement some code whereby the model of the stealth-enemy becomes transparent? (in much the same method that Thievery UT and Equilibrium used).

 

In either case, i'm also wondering whether the AI's scripts could be modified so that our stealthed enemy acts less like a clunking armour-plated Benny and more like an assassin of sorts. For example, picture a room with a single pool of light in the center, around the edges complete darkness. Now our player has to cross that pool of light to continue, whilst our stealth-enemy lies in wait off to the side. What I'm wondering is whether, when the AI sees the player; does he have to attack immediately? Could he be configured to have noticed the player, (Due to light-gem, sound etc.) but lie in wait until certain parameter's have been fulifilled? (Such as the player crossing a certain way through the pool of light; or reaching a door at the end of the room). Does the D3 engine allow for such changes to an AI's behaviour?

 

As a side note, whilst completion is a long way off for the Darkmod, I was wondering what you guys will be doing when your finished? I reckon you should start up a game design studio. The quality of your work and your dedication is astounding! You guys could go really far I think.

Anyways, keep up the good work!

[sparhawk]

I'm wondering whether the Darkmod will also allow for enemy A.I that has much the same stealth ability as Garret does.

 

We have some plans for more stealthy AI, but probably not on the level of the Thief himself.

 

In either case, i'm also wondering whether the AI's scripts could be modified so that our stealthed enemy acts less like a clunking armour-plated Benny and more like an assassin of sorts.

 

The AI is mostly done via scripts, so anybody should eb able to change it, even without knowing C++.

 

Does the D3 engine allow for such changes to an AI's behaviour?

 

Definitely. Otherwise we wouldn't be able to code our own AI as well.

 

As a side note, whilst completion is a long way off for the Darkmod, I was wondering what you guys will be doing when your finished?

 

Personally I have plans for another game done ont he D3 engine. Being the lazy bastard I am, I don't know if I will ever do it though. I have this planned since years now, but D3 is the first engine where I really started to create my own game, so it might be feasable. It will be a much improved version of a game from the C64.

 

I reckon you should start up a game design studio. The quality of your work and your dedication is astounding! You guys could go really far I think.

Anyways, keep up the good work! 

 

Thanky. We always like to hear this.

[SplaTtzZ]

Great! Thanks for clearing that up!

There are still a few more questions i would like to ask, if you guys don't mind. Firstly, will it be possible to make certain npc characters not have particular animations or sounds? I'm thinking in regards to stealth enemies here, particularly something akin to the statues in T: DS. Whilst i think Ion Storm implemented these guys quite poorly; the premise still remains quite sound. Imagine walking down a hallway filled with decorative stands of medieval armour; only to have one suddenly come to life and attack you! Could prove very frightening indeed.

Now whilst I know you probably wouldnt go to the trouble of creating a completely new model and animation set; I was thinking of perhaps taking the existing models and maybe re-texturing them with a stone pattern to create a statue. Which leads me back to my original question, would I be able to remove animations (such as a "standing idle" one, even breathing animations) and sounds (breathing, whistling, "idle" sounds etc.) to make them seem like inanimate objects? On the same vein, will it also be possible to create a guard entity; but without any AI or animation at all? (for the purpose of creating simple; normal statues)

[sparhawk]

We are planning to only create the models required for the basic Thief inspired gameplay. Beyond that, of course we will create any additional models needed for our campaign. If we need such statues they will be created, if not then then not.

[Domarius]

Glad you liked Equilibrium... so did I

 

We've been talking about certain AI types, and I hope you will be pleasantly surprised.

[SplaTtzZ]

Hooray! :lol:

 

Can't wait to see what you guys come up with! I think adding in enemies who have some stealth capabilities, just like garret, puts them a little more on the players level and creates for some really compelling and challenging gameplay.

It's a shame LGS didnt delve much into it (though those Treants in TMA certainly fit the bill in some ways) and I was very disappointed with the Keeper Enforcers in TDS; i thought those guys would be a little more tactful and, well, quieter; instead they pretty much nuked the entire city. It'll be great to implement some really elite guards who act just like a thief does!

 

Anyway, i've taken enough of your time; again keep up the great work!

[Domarius]

I agree, those Keeper enforcers were a real let down, with their *open quotes* "telepathy" *close quotes*... they were just regular AI with different graphics and sounds.

 

Anyone seen Team America? "I sense I'm going down!"

[FishFace]

Hey, when you're typing, you can use the quotes on the keyboard - try SHIFT-2

 

Whilst stealthy AI would be tricky to code, they'll be well worth the effort. Of course, they shouldn't be too near Garrett, as he can obviously clear out entire mansions with little trouble, so one of those on the enemy's team would be baad.

[SplaTtzZ]

Of course, they shouldn't be too near Garrett

 

Of course, don't get me wrong; we don't want some impossible-to-beat AI. I'm no coder, but i assume it would be difficult to put in an enemy AI with the level of intelligence the player has anyway.

 

I'm more interested in having enemies that create atmosphere and tension, and hunt you in much the same way you hunt them; through stealth. Mind you, it would be a shame if it was over-used; it would make Thief become something like Doom 3, which would be a great shame. I think FM authors would be advised to implement some subtle way of letting the player know that some areas within their maps do contain stealth AI; perhaps through a pick-up (or lack there of) in ambient music, or by a note within the stage or something like that. I don't want to see 50 million maps with enemies i can't see, much the same way as i don't like too many maps with undead in them. We need variety

 

Another question; would it be possible to implement the Keeper Enforcers in the Darkmod? Are you planning on any models for them? And further, would it be possible to implement actual 'Telepathy'? Perhaps when one AI sees the player, there is a script informing other enforcers of his presence, in much the same way a guard will shout to alert other guards nearby (this would not be bounded by sound propagation limits however, it would instantaneously inform all enforcers on the map), and the other enforcer AI;s would come a'running to their mate!

[Ishtvan]

We aren't going to have keepers, so short answer would be no, we're not going to have keeper enforcers.

 

We've talked about various ideas for stealthy AI, the most simple being guards that slow down and step quietly when looking for you. There have been some suggestions on top of that, but we'll just have to see if we have time to fit them in the first release.

[SplaTtzZ]

Yes i can understand the time issues (not to mention legal/copyright issues) of creating a model and animations etc. that is really a novelty at best.

 

If you aren't going to create new AI or models for stealthy enemies, how difficult would you say it would be for an average FM designer to design an enemy that could be stealthy? Is it simply a matter of removing any sounds that it makes and putting it in the shadows, or does it require some hard programming/coding of AI, such as setting transparency effects on the model, to work?

[Ishtvan]

You can do either; it's up to you.

 

If placing them in dark areas in "ambush mode" and lowering the sound volumes is enough for you, that's pretty easy to do.

 

If you want to apply an invisibility shader, that's harder (although I find it hard to believe that one doesn't exist already, you could probably just copy the vertex program or something). That's very simple to put in once you have the shader programmed though.

 

Making AI stick to shadows when they move would be harder though; because it's dynamic lighting, the calculation to see how bright an area is can be a little intensive and you might not want to be doing that for every grid point or calculate a darkness gradient for every AI.

 

You could get the lightness at every AI grid point on map load and hope it doesn't change much, then you might have to reprogram some of the AI pathfinding code so that you could make light grid points cost more than dark ones (ie, make paths going thru darkness desirable).

 

Or, you could put in pathnodes, combat nodes, etc yourself to make them stick to darkness when they patrol and ambush you from dark areas. That would be easier, but not as "dynamic"