Forsaken

I just finished Dune and I am planning on getting Dune Messiah.

Lander is the best racing game ever. It consists of constantly crashing your ship into walls at slow speeds, hoping you won't run out of fuel.

Well, I didn't play it for the themes. I played it for the hub system.

I wonder if you ever played OoT, without being biased towards it.

Which LoZ did you play, anyway? (I don't remember the story well) You, sir, are an idiot. But I guess I shouldn't be stating the obvious.

To Komaq Who are you talking to? If you want hard puzzles, there's always Riven. A great game, too. But I certainly don't like OoT for puzzles. "Don't be ridiculous, you can't learn a language by reading a foreign book, unless you have some pre-existing knowledge of the language, or some kind of rosetta stone for transcription purposes, such as a copy of the book in your own language as well." I had a Russian-English vocabulary. At first I was translating every word but then I just started ramming though it... "How could I learn Russian only by reading a Russian novel, I don't know a single Russian word, and never would no matter how long I stared at the pages" Russian is a bad example, it's a lot more complicated than English. English is a very intuitive language. You need to know a few words, but what is more important is the ability to recognize a noun from a verb. My vocabulary was pretty non-existant, it wasn't even the 300 ESL words. I understand that not everyone can drone onto a book like that. I can. "You obviously had many other resources available to you for learning English, and reading English novels did nothing but help straighten out your grammar a little." Complete rubbish. The vast majority of my vocabulary, and pretty much 90% of my grammar knowledge and feel (since learning English grammar through rules is pointless) came from Harry Potter. You obviously have no idea how the brain works when it reads books do you? Never tried it yourself, have you? I go as far as I want to go, and I find proper to go. And where did you draw that conclusion? What tells you that I am obsessed with Oblivion, for that matter? Last game I played was Lander for like an hour (that game won't let you play it too long). I haven't had Oblivion installed for like a year now. Well, that's your opinion on games. But not mine. I wouldn't know, didn't play BG much. I played NWN as NWN. Nope it doesn't. It just means you don't like certain games, that's all... And you hang around a forum. I don't see a difference. IRC is just another medium (which I only use for the Project Offset game at the moment because, you know, the forums are down). You should understand that the medium is not the message if you have brains. Oh, but, you know, while people join games on SC, they also sit in bnet, discussing the game, which is pretty normal for anyone who wants to be good in that game. Where the heck did that came from? lol I am probably less obsessed than most people on this forum. <quote>First of all, what matters or what doesn't each person decides for themselves. To some, music making matters, or drawing matters; to me, computers, and what they include, particulary programming and gaming matters, and also I watched movies who's names you probably never heard of. Gaming is a hobby just like anything else is. Even then, I don't spend that much time on them. I actually do my homework, and I have some sports to do, and I read (reading Dune at the moment), I exercise, I expore the robotics field on occassion, I program, and I play my games. Don't accuse me of the obsessed scheme, please. I simply don't agree with the label of "horrible" applied to a game that perhaps is not great, but is certainly not horrible. "Anyway, I can tell you're quite a young person, so I'll assume for your sake that you'll grow out of all this nonsense at some point in the future." I am only 17, and already a lot more mature than you are, and I suggest you are past 20. That's kinda sad.

If I want a game, I want it to be realistic. For that, I need good story. Simple as that.

Working on ANYTHING varies from place to place. Some young game companies tend to begin enthusiastic, releasing quality products, then they go down into money making because they realize they can make so much money (Blizzard, Ravensoft, Bethesda, ID). Some companies continually work enthusiastically, and often end up going bankrupt or getting bought (Westwood, Psygnosis, Black Isle Studios/Interplay). Some companies are more or less balanced (Nival Interactive, KD-Labs). I am more than sure that work conditions in all these companies were drastically different over time as they got more (or less) money, and different management, and different technology inflow, and, of course, change of the work force.

Show me a game like OoT which is not kiddish and I will play it. But the only games designed like OoT that I know of are heXen and Turok 2, and very few others (that mostly suck). The genre of of hub-based fantasy fast-paced games is extinct, and OoT is one of the few ones that I found in addition. There is no game like heXen, Turok, or OoT, and until that genre becomes popular, I'd play anything from it as long as it's worthwhile. Graphics to me don't matter. Your statement that adults can't play games like OoT is similar to football athletes saying tennis is a girly sport. I read the books, that's where I learned my English from, and I'd like to see you read Harry Potter in a language you know 5 words in. Tell me how "childish" that is. No, it can't. TV is not interactive, and is limited in video image. OoT is a lot more than just that video image that annoys you so much. I understand that graphics ward you off, but please don't call a great game horrible just because it was intended for children, but it has such high gameplay quality that adults love it, too. No value for you doesn't mean no value for me. It's a battleground for me where I can forge my own history, especially with the editor. The thing about Oblivion is that it doesn't really matter what you do in it. You do not appreciate that, I understand. I do. I love Gothic 1 (Gothic 2 wasn't my cup of tea, or Gothic 3), and I like it better than Oblivion, but I also think it's pointless to compare it to Oblivion. Moreover, Oblivion is not what I call an RPG. It's more of a free ride action game with dialogs for me, but not really what I view as an RPG. You can accept Gothic with a low amount of detail, but not OoT with childish design? Inconsistency. If you actually believe advertisements, I wonder how you live. Advertisements are a bureaucracy curse, they are to be completely ignored, disbelieved, and despised. To consider what a game represents you look at what company made it, the name, the team, the design, and the gameplay. Not what someone said in the PR department to make the game sell a bit better. That has nothing to do with the programmers and designers of that game, they did not generate that advertisement. Speaking of advertisement, this may give someone a laugh, a guy criticizing Bethesda's Fallout 3 promotion tactic and Fallout 3 previews: http://www.diablo3.com/forums/showpost.php...amp;postcount=1 And you are...? What makes you better than people who like FF? You remind me of this guy from Twin Peaks, Albert. He was really good at something, too. But he was an ass. And that's what the sheriff told Albert: "I hear that you are real good at what you do. And, well, that's very good. 'Cause normally when a stranger walked into my station talking this kind of crap, he'd be looking for his teeth two blocks up on Queer Street." But I am used to such ignorance. I got kicked out of an IRC channel for liking LEXX and got accepted into another channel for the same reason. Members of the StarCraft Battle.net think I am some freak because they believe StarCraft and girls don't go together. Then again some guys don't want to talk to me because they are aware that I think bisexuals and homosexuals are people, too. All I can say that, unless you change your attitude, and stop being so shut down, you'll miss out on a lot of things in life, be it games, people, or anything else. Perhaps you like it that way, I don't know.

I got a lot of fun out of Oblivion (not so much Morrowind). It really depends on how you play it. I didn't play FF7, I played FFX and I loved it, that's all I can say.

Then he's misplacing his argument, he seems to be comparing game storylines to books, while in books, storylines are completely straight and rigid. It's not like the reader may choose which character goes where. Non-linearity is in the hands of the developers. If they want it to be non-linear they can do it, but that has nothing to do with storyline at all. There is no point in genre combining. It makes the game developers disperse (see Oblivion and Spore), and in the end, all individual parts are weak, such as thievery in Oblivion compared to Thief.

Zelda, especially OoT, is a great game. If you discard a game just because of a graphics style, I can say that you have a very shallow and nearsighted taste in games. OoT is open world, detailed, has a proper storyline, has good gameplay mechanics, and a good soundtrack to boot. There are plenty of games with blood and gore and darkness these days. I find games like Zelda, the flashy ones, a breath of fresh air. Morrowind and Oblivion have a big world and it's bound to be clone-like, yet there is no RPG like them. They are made in their own genre. You simply don't like that genre. Go make a game that big with that much detail and with those graphics, and I want you see accomplish that. It's simply impossible to do in such a short time, so it's kinda pointless to attack a game with a huge world for being repetitive. Neverwinter Nights is decent enough. I don't know much about BG, neither is it relevant, NWN itself is not a very good game but I got tons of fun out of it. If you expected to get BG out of a game named NWN, you are delusional. Final Fantasy is recognized worldwide, it's certainly played by many people. The series has plenty of merits, and I am pretty sure you only dislike it because of the graphics style, tut-tut...

Those games are fine, oDDity. I'm surprised you don't like them, kinda strange...

Maybe it has something to do with all these anime-style guys with white spiky hair? And all those love stories...

But that's not what I am talking about... I am not talking about current storylines, I am saying you are afraid of the storyline your game will have because your relation to them is that they can only be bad. Primarily, I do not believe they are all bad. They may be worse than some critically acclaimed novels, but you will find plenty of novels worse than critically acclaimed novels so that really doesn't bear any significance. The purpose of a story is not to compete with other stories, especially in a game, its purpose is to complement a game. A game without a storyline, or with a cliche one, would remain a game of a lower class for me always. My interest in games is to have them take me to the other side, and only a game with atmosphere can do that. Atmosphere comes from the background of the game and the storyline. You can just have black walls in Thief with some random lion coat of arms, or you can have hammers, and you can have the backstory behind what those hammers represent, and why they are there, which adds to the overall belief of the game as realistic, and allows to perceive it as more than just a toy. Otherwise, developers of Fallout, OoT, TES, BG, SC, and some other games with relatively good storylines would never bother with the development of those storylines and just leave raw gameplay. OoT without the storyline it has would be considered worthless by many people, including me. I wouldn't be a fan of heXen without it's crappy half-baked storyline written by 10 different people at different time periods... Of course, if you blatantly place yourself in the position "games are just games", and "game storylines suck" you'd never understand that.