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  1. The problem exists only if the player continues to hold it. AI definately needs to cheat here. So how much of a distance there should be in your opinion? 2m, 5m, 10m? Maybe I can take the object visibility into account as well for identifying the player. It seems more reasonable to be dependent on both the visibility and the distance I think. They can see how visible is the object they are holding, not precise as a lightgem but still they can see it. A little bit of mystery can't be a bad thing here. If we shouldn't penalise the player for this, there should be no object awareness or did I understand it wrong?
  2. No it can't walk over. The goal is to reach the position of the object not the player. Yes this is the exactly same algorithm I am trying to implement I was trying to make it identify the player when it is really close to the object (radius based) and the AI is also reached the maximum alert. It's not going well so far. The problem is moving towards it will not identify the player. Are you suggesting to make it like I am trying to do? A distance based system. Maybe 2m in radius of the object detect the player no matter the visibility.
  3. Jaxa, so you are saying that The only solution is to make it identify the enemy after reaching some threshold() which can result AI spotting the player while he is completely hidden, from 20 m by just seeing a moving apple. this is okay for you.
  4. For the time being I'm almost out of ideas about the object awareness. I have a reliable detection and reaction system but I can not finalize the system. The guard naturally spots the moving object depending on the distance visiblity etc., if some threshold is reached visual alerts are triggered therefore it investigates the object by moving towards it. It reaches the maximum alert level and stands there looking at the object because I am in the shadows and he only can see the object. Should I make the ai move around the object to somehow contact with the player because if the player is hidden enough he can't be identified unless a contact. But this does not make sense. You see an object which is on air and also moving and you take a walk around it. I don't know... I was trying to make it identify the player when it is really close to the object (radius based) and the AI is also reached the maximum alert. It's not going well so far. The only solution is to make it identify the enemy after reaching some threshold() which can result AI spotting the player from 20 m by just seeing a moving apple. Any other suggestions to tie the player identification to the object awareness?
  5. This is a hardcore, old school thinking style. I too share your views all by heart but that doesn't mean it is the way to go as we are the minority even among the people playing this mod as also Springheel said. But still this doesn't mean we shouldn't implement all the real behaviour of a guard. The actual challenge is to find a sweet spot in the gameplay between reality and game which makes everyone happy. This problem has a lot of difficult cases to overcome. It is not impossible but all situations should be well covered before any attemps. Long discussions should be made. I will make experiments about it this night.
  6. So you are actually suggesting the second option. What exactly is "close enough" ? Are you suggesting it to be depending on the distance or visibility or both? I was thinking something like, if the ai can't get closer to the entity and still sees the object, then it should identify the player no matter the players visibility.
  7. I too found that one more reasonable and started making experiments with it. It seems like this method is very prone to silly behaviour. The AI can't identify the player until it actually detects the player and this causes situations like; The ai definately saw the moving object. He reached the maximum alert state so he investigates the object place. But the player holds the object between himself and the ai. AI tries to investigate the location of the object. It arrives to the location and stands next to the object looking at it and barking. It is just stuck there if the player doesn't move the object. You can be in shadows and the object is in light. If you put the object between yourself and the AI, it will not have the chance to detect you. Any suggesstions?
  8. Well, I see my misjudgement there. That is a different situation. And what do you think I should do about the object awareness thing? (the question I asked at the bottom of the post before this)
  9. What if the player is not visible, yet can play with the door? Not completely open it or close it, just playing with the door in front of the AI. Will it be worthy to investigate for AI? One of the things that breaks the immersion for me is, the player can stop the door AI is closing while all AI can do is to look. AI sees this but just can't react because it is not fully opened or closed. (assuming that we extended or created a system depending on open or close) I think after making the AI turn their heads, we should have a system to make AI aware of the moving door and increase the alert level according to it. More importantly, a system based on the door movement has the potential to solve a lot more things that we can not think of in one shot. It can be percentage based like Tels suggested or we can figure out something else but it is crucial to have it based around door movement, not open or close state. So there are two steps: 1- the door opens and AI turns its head towards the door if it is not already looking. 2- while he is looking at the door it should be alerted depending on the movement. These are completely independent from suspicious door cases and therefore can blend together well. For me this seems like a natural reaction in real life. By the way, about the object awareness that I am working on; Should I implement the alert system like, if the AI reaches some alert threshold because of seing a moving object in air, he identifies the player without actually seing him. The logical reason for this is the object should somehow be grabbed by the player. The alert threshold actually represents that it identified who is holding the object. That depends on imagination (maybe he sees the player's arm if he looks long enough.) Or should I make it like, n no matter how alerted he is because of the moving object, he shouldn't identify the player. This is like the hearing alert. The AI definately knows something is out there but just can't spot it. Last state of search with weapons drawn. So what are your opinions?
  10. Is this really confirmed, I mean the team agreed to implement this before? Hmm I was thinking that the guard should also turn around if the door is really close but I can see baddcog's point on this. It would somehow break gameplay. On the other hand, this seems reasonable gameplay wise and shouldn't be too complicated. But it would cause problems in gameplay when an AI gets stuck and can't pass through the door, there is a potential that nearby AI would be distrupted constantly so we should check who is opening the door. But thats implementation part of course. Other than that I don't see any possible problems with watching and investigating. I addition it would allow the player to distract the guard in a new way I think.
  11. Yes this was exactly what I suggested.
  12. I know that but the problem is if the door is not suspicious, you can play with the door in front of an ai as long as you want and he wouldn't care. These are very good cases to take care of for the solution. There are other cases to think of. If the player is holding a candle and the ai suddenly turns towards the candle. If it doesn't see the player but only the candle and the player is not moving the candle ai wouldn't have a reaction. But we can add what you suggested: * if the object is not moving, but fully lit, then get slightly more alert (so if the player freezes with a hovering crate, that raises suspicion, too) But then here comes another problem; The candle is grabbed by the player and player doesn't move the candle, but it is also on the table. So the candle is just on the table but because of being grabbed by the player the AI is alerted. Sorry if my English is not clear. Let's keep brainstorming
  13. I made a suggestion about this problem in the I Want To Help section and if somehow I can solve this object and light awareness problem, my next objective will be extended to especially to door awareness but it is another story. I will start a new thread about that sometime.
  14. I am working on an implementation that makes AI aware of moving lights and objects which it can see. I wanted to know your opinions about the problem and some possible solutions for it. The problem: AI doesn't react to an object that is grabbed by the player and moved in front of their eyes. I tested it multiple times, even the object is completely lit in front of the AI nothing happens. In fact, you can push them with these objects if you do it slowly and carefully in 1.07 (the new 1.08 has corrected being able to push as grayman told). Related to this, they don't react to candle or lantern light that moves or appears in front of them. You take a candle and completely brighten the front of the AI while standing next to him, there is no reaction. Also from what I have read from the forum, the player can abuse this by grabbing a pile and creating a shadow for himself. The ai isn't aware of the moving pile, so player can move piles around for creating shadows. After creating enough shadow you can walk inside the shadow and AI won't notice this because it can not detect a moving object. I think it is a major problem for AI and I am trying to find a good solution for this. I need feedback from you guys in order to understand what I should or I should not do about this problem. Here's my solution: I created multiple algorithms using different methods in the code. For the moving object awareness, the most simple solution was; if the ai can see the object && that object is grabbed by player && it also moves make the AI face to the entity that is moving and set the alert state to suspicious or searching. I think the AI can handle afterwards because I will just try to make the ai investigate near the moving object. To get rid of possible issues between other ai, the implementation should find whether the object is held by the player. This is the solution I found for light awareness which is similar to moving objects. if the light is held by the player (ai eliminated) && the light moves (I don't have an exact idea about this one) && the bounding sphere of light intersects with the AI viewcone turn toward the lightsource Again if we can only turn the ai to that direction the rest will handled by ai. I mean it is a natural reaction to turn towards where the light comes before going into any states. (I think) I really know how deep and complex this solution can get but again we can find the source of light candle or torch whether ai or the player therefore complications with other AI would be eliminated. I would like to hear thoughts and possible alternative solutions from the community and the team before trying to implement it.
  15. It would be nice if it was a percentage based penalty but I can only see the penalty when the gem is not completely dark or when it is just completely dark.
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