Baddcog

That's a cool car, I want it, though it looks really slow Basically that's how the lantern bot will move, but the legs will rotate at the base as bit for the foward to back move. Springheel: The legs you have drawn there are really very similar to the lantern bots legs, = the cables of course. I thought the cable would be a simple was to articulat the legs rather than hydrolics. Yours have same amount of joints and all. So I'm not really getting why you think the other bots legs look so complicated, all I did was rotate the lantern bot legs 90 degrees and repostion the joints so they go in a z shape. I still think the dog leg option is the best for a four legged bot. It's not that complex, it'll balance, it could move fast/navigate terrain. My point with doing that really was to make it skinnier. The little lantern bot is about 3 feet wide and 2 feet tall, so if I made a version with legs to the side that was 4 feet tall he'd be to wide for doors. I see your point in needing a head to go side/side. The problem I've seen with the biped bot is everyone posted wondering how they would balance. This is one of those suspended disbelief issues. I took a good look at the combat bot in T2 and there is NO way it would balance, as soon as one leg lifted it would tip. I don't mind doing a biped but we do need to sort out that issue. Either we don't care, maybe it could swing side/side like the t2 bots for counterbalance or we judt don't even worry about that. The gas thing: launching gas bombs might not be a bad option. I'm not sure about catapult. no feelings either way I guess. I think that would be a cool steampunkish way to do it, kindof weird contraption sort of thing, probably better than grenade launcher. I'd like to here what others to say. I'm not sure how many members are checking this thread, should we start a new thread/poll kindof thing that says "all team members opinions required"?

Sounds like you want to 'break' the smooth effect from one part of obj, have a sharp crease, then have another smooth group on the inside thing? You need to detach the polys of the inside piece (like you were going to use another texture) from the outside piece so the verts aren't welded, then the smooth wont smooth across those verts. I hope that's what you need.

My final concept? I'm kindof running dry on ideas. This is a rough concept, so of course things like thicker legs are absolute changes. Anyway, before i start any new bots I'd like to get not only opinions but I would like some help with more concepts. Even just basic pencil scrathes on napkins. I guess I big problem I'm having, and I noticed this in other bot threads is that everyone has their idea of what they want, but it's different from what everyone else wants <IMG style="VERTICAL-ALIGN: middle" alt="" src=" http://forums.thedarkmod.com/style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif" border=0 emoid=""> So what I propse is a brainstorming of everyones ideas again, but to help finalize exactly what we want/need. ------- I suppose it will be : 2 combat bots: One arrow attack (thru the mouth?) One gas attack (thru the tail?) with some kind of gargoyle/animal head (hopefully like above) Legs not wheels. Yes the T2 bots did do stairs. Of course they had limits of ladders/small holes, will the Darkmod Ai climb ladders? I don't know, wheel and leg combo just seems odd. If they did have wheels how can we stop them from using stairs. Don't know what happened there: Anyway, I know T2 ai were stopped by walls, but how would we stop a bot from stairs? I stimmed blockade? Then I need someone up high to just say "this is what we want, shuddup and do it"

whoops, some strange double post thing

I did notice a mention of 'steel arrows', which could be good for bots BUT they'd take another weapon slot and while I don't think it would add alot of complication to gamesys I'm not sure. I'd probably say no to this myself, although I think it is a good idea for that purpose. I think what could be done as far as stopping gears/changing tex if we did decide on that is having 2 textures, one moving, that maybe could recieve the stim from arrow. But it never stops animating, instead it toggles a transparent tex to turn opaque (I know that can be done). This new image would be in front of animated and would just block the players view of animation. That would probably be easiest option. What does everyone else think of the legs? I'd like to pin down one style for the 2 remaining combots. Then the skeletons/animations could probably be used on both, with exception of attacks. Maybe one crossbow one gas? I'd like at least one to have the opening mouth to emit arrow/gas. I'd prefer the gas as above with a tail. And arrow shoot out of mouth to give palyer warning of wind up time. Mouth ratchets down, around loading, fires, mouth snaps shut. mouth ratchets... The tail could be similar, have some animation where it 'springs' to attention. -edit: On complexity of legs. I didn't want to get too much more simple, they are really the same as the other bot. For a few reasons: 1- realistic walking, with 4 legs they could balance quite easily, get up/down stairs ect... and with those joints they have the articulation needed to walk properly. (see discussion on DeepOmegas bot) 2-they use alot of same parts as lantern bot. I think this is important since the bots are expensive to produce, natuarally the inventors would try to make as few parts as needed. (I do have a forge madel almost complete- I plan on making molds for these parts) Thus same gears, leg bones, heads. -edit2: I was also thinking a 2 legged bot with a tail for balance (a tripod basically) but more able to use staris than a wheeled bot. Of course instad of tail dragging on ground there could be a small wheel at end of it. Would be steampunk weird, but not overly odd or unuseful. It could be the gas bot, afterall art imitates life (or is it the other way around?) and most likely an inventor would have seen a belchewr and thought 'I can make that' thinking it would be better having a controlable bot instead of haphazard beast partroling.

Couple more things I noticed in my research: The idea of having gears on sides that can be jammed with arrows. I think that's a really cool idea. Could we have an arrow stop an animated texture? That's probably the big thing, seems like alot can be done with materials... Other than that, how should the large bots be disabled? It seems like half team though water arrows dumb, half like em. I think it makes sense, but jamming gears does too. maybe we could have 2 bots water, 2 arrow. Make it just a bit tougher. I think broadhead to side of would make it stealthy like arrows from back. more gas bot concepts. I like the scorpion tail thing for the nozzle. Decided larger bots would be better with dog legs instead of spider. will fit thru doors better. I don't know about wheels. And I really don't care for the combo wheel/leg thing. I know Staempunk is supposed to border on goofy, but it just seems so odd. I think that wheels on one would be cool, but not a combat bot since they'd be limited by stairs. I think just a helper bot around the shop, carry tools, bottle, ect would be the only practical use for wheels. ---- @ ascottk, I will finish up the tex on lantern bot soon and get him to you. It's all one tex so that'll be easy enough. There are 2 weird bones issues for him. 1-it needs some bones in back to work the piston. 2-it needs one up top to work the steampipe lid. I was thinking he'd walk around but not steam too much, if he stops to look around he'd deffinately blow off steam not being used. But more on that later.

I found it! This is deffinately my next bot!!! http://worlddominationtoys.com/toys_li%27lgasser.html

I like the model myself. I really like the brown tex, not so much the scales on the green though. I think the brown recolored would be better. I also think they need a bit more detail in face, just seems plain, maybe all could be done in normal map.

thanks ascottk ah, forum doing weird stuff. I can't un-bold your name. Anyway. I've only done a little bit of rigging, I know I can rig up the bot, but I don't know if I'll have any success getting things to work properly. Would you mind handling all that? I deffinately have some concepts for how I'd like the lantern bot to work. edit: oh major Q I guess. It looks like we can have seperate tex on an AI. This could help reuse stuff alot, I figured you wouldn't be able to skin a mesh like that since materials have to be on seperate objects. Anything special that needs done?

Thanks, that doesn't show the shadows it will cast, I forgot a pic of that. @ PinkDot. thanks and sorry. My brain is like a sponge, right now it's full of water and hard to soak up anything else.

OK, I scoured the forums for all bot related topics and Dled as much as I could. Took em home and read thru em. I'll summarize what I think the team wants (my opinion of what I read): oDDity wants cannonballs, almost everyone else isn't too sure about this. Personally I never liked the T2 cannons bots too much, kindof goes with that gun issue. If we have cannons why not guns. I don't think guns fit the thief enviro very well. I do think a side mod of a victorian/gun enviro would be a cool game, but a different one. Alot of mentions of arrows/crossbows/gas (maybe flametrowers) Here are a few concepts: Gas bot, I imagine this could be very similar to the size of lantern bot. Even working in tandem would be cool. This one has eyes, the lantern bot has the ears so to speak. Imagine one of these coming around front of crate, one around back, where to go? The face is just a mock-up for now, see below. Crossbow, good way to fire arrows. This would be the loading system? problems, bulky, too many polys? What happens to arrows, when they run out, would it be possible toanimate/attach arrows in this fashion. Need animator input I guess. Propulsion concepts. Wheels? legs? 4 legs on all? maybe elite bots are biped? Problems with wheels- stairs. can certian AI be made to avoid stairs? I suppose there is a stair anim for legged creatures. edit:looking for gargoyle pics, good face for bots. I think an animal type head would be cool, different than T2 human faces. I also think opening jaws to emit projectiles might be cool, the player would know the bot was 'winding up' I think mean looking, but not so much evil looking as face on the bot pic above. I like the one at top of this page http://gargoylestore.com/ http://www.geocities.com/gargoyleppa/photos/UPFF01.jpg

I also think the top looks best, it has less arrow angle.

Ah, so many questions I'm curious to know how the collision models interact with the actual textures. If a chest is made out of metal and wood, without collision model, it seems that an arrow striking the correct material would make the correct noise. But what happens if it hits a collision model? Does it use the closest material? Or does it make a generic noise? Back to shadows. I tried to make materials (basically ceramic, with all ceramic props taken from a TDM material) and added noshadow and noselfshadow. Of course I tried on of each alone too. But that makes my objects black. Is this due to the custom material type ie: surftype15 "ceramic" (I know that's incorrect-off top of my head) --------- I'm sending greebo a new version of my street lamp. changed it just a bit. I would like to hear some feedback once it's up before I finish up the rest of the lamps.

Like the water wheel

Ok, chest and many other objects resized, I think I'm much closer. I've also changed position of lid so it SHOULD be right. I'll try and upload later today so someone can check before I call it final. (haven't figured out how to frob, ect... possibly because I'm still using old stuff from rars. On a good note I'm getting in game now and testing my objs in Darkmod so most stuff should be ready before I upload now relieving that burdern from you guys. Also, I am having cable internet installed next week so I'll be able to use SVN and get all the new stuff. I got my resized street lamp in game and noticed a big prob, I had backfacing polys for transparency which blocked the light, so that's been fixed and They have a new glass tex which is much closer to the Darkmod lanterns. I modeled the bars that were on the tex so now they cast some wicked shadows. (I also shrank the bottom of lantern a bit to make shadow underneath smaller) I don't really dig having the offset light source to the lamps, I guess in some spots it looks alright, in others I don't like it. It also seems that brightness can't be changed on lights, just radius and placement eh? That kindof sucks as I'm used to Dromed lighting, but I guess not that big of a deal, just need to get used to it. ----------- Back to objects and help: Shadows boxes This is still probably my biggest prob, I'll search some more too. But as I said before, if I use shadow or shadow2 textures it just seems to add the box shadow to the object shadow, thus increasing the complexity of the shadow, not simplifing it. So for know I'm rexporting models without shadow. Scratch that, guess I found answer at doom3 world. I need to make all textures NOT cast shadows, then only shadow2 will cast... ah, so simple. Collision I understand that we want collision on moveable objects. But for instance, my gembags can be frobbed (taken) but they never be thrown. So do they really need one?

Cool, thanks. I did find that lantern bot quote in one page I dl'ed yesterday. Now it feels less original Oh well, glad I was on the same page as someone else. Didn't find those other quotes so that helps. I think voices could be cool, but yes, no philosophy/theology spouting bots. Maybe I'll start with some head concepts. I think right now that's the biggest thing. Obviously it would be easiest to use the same head on all (like LGS did) and I like the gargoyle idea.

nope, will look for them,. thanks.

I guess it wouldn't hurt to start discussing some bot options now. Give me something to chew on for awhile. Types: Gasbot comes to mind. A medium size bot (no reason to make this one too big). Has a canister of gas and a nozzle to spray player? Maybe it could be a tricycle style. (This of course might cause probs with stairs but I think a bot on wheels would be cool) (might also cause probs with turning in tight spots-weird animation, sliding across ground? Bad idea?) trying to think of options other than cannonballs. Bot with crossbow? shoot fire arrows? Hammer bot, large hammer on front to smash player. Should all bots be on 4 legs? biped bots?

yes, gargoyle heads, that sounds really cool. Gets us away from that mech style too.

greebo's a man of action that was fast.

anqua: Is the chest large enough? Bad timing huh? Glad you like it but after comparing some of my stuff to darkmod stuff I think I'm still about 20% small. I'm not sure what you mean by apply rotation and scale. That must be a Maya/blender thing. I only use those in max when I want to scale or rotate. I didn't have those issues in map Seventh (loaded in Doom3) but I haven't checked it out since I got Darkmod up and running (I did finally get in game) I had problems with it at that time, the front of lockbox and one plane of carpet tex were black, I thought the normals were reversed or something weird. That model had been through alot over the years. So I rebuilt it from scratch and all seemed fine. Now I've got the idea on how to set the rotation of lid too. I had moved the pivot to the back of lid, but exported it at its original height (above chest) for easy alignment, my bad. PinkDot, thanks! I am going to add a bit more dirt, not too much. Right now it's a generic specular map, a specific one will help make it dirty. I am starting to enjoy some mechanical stuff, it's something i never did for T2 until recently. I've been looking into a bunch of Steampunk resources latley too, that helps. ------- It was the Deep Omega bot that I saw, really cool. Too bad we can't get it. perhaps Oddity's bot could be used. Maybe textured more in this style than T2 style. I haven't seen it so I'm imagining a T2 bot. I do think faces on larger bots are a good idea.... Maybe we can get him to upload or foward it to me to play with? I'll PM him. ---------- Anyway, Megaphone added. I think I'm going with the small uinderneath one, but feel free to comment I think it is a good addition.

So, is it the 'feet' themselves or the legs that look to small to you guys. Like do I need to add feet? or maybe just some 'pods' to the bottom of legs? I'm hoping to avoid adding joints for feet:D After the mention I had actually pictured them trying to walk across metal grates. Can Ai be programmed to avoid certian floor texture (easily)? That might be a good way to contain them. Along with stairs I guess. Not sure how that'll work. I also had thought about a sensor, or brain too. Then i thought about complications. Sometimes it's better to just say "that's how it is, accept it" (to player), i did try to fit in most parts of a steam engine to give it a plausible reality. At the same time I would be willing to add some kindof sensor, and maybe noise is the best option as I don't want to add eyes/head... Possibly a megaphone 'funnel' for lack of better description, Like on the record player. Just a small one to the side and above lantern body? Maybe I'll add one and let you guys have a look. When I'm done with tex I'll upload a static model or two. sparhawk. I'm deffinately into making a few bots and using a steam engine style, larger ones would probably be put out like the T2 bots. This one is so small (maybe 2-3 feet square) that I figured that Ai adding boiling pot of water would save in the complication dept (even if only in a brief description somewhere). The player could probably shut it down with a hard knock from blackjack or sword. And it would be cool to have some kindof combat bot, I really liked the original, too bad it is gone eh? If anyone has sketches of robot ideas that would be cool, I'd like them to be as UN-T2 as possbile. Discuss here

Glad you guys like it. I'm hoping that the copper/brass look sways Sparhawk from the 'looks futuristic' opinion I will continue texturing as is. What does everyone else think about the feet? I'll get those other models up too, may be a few days...

hmm, I don't know what it was originally, I didn't have all the rars either. But i did go thru everything last night change folder... and WOW, what can I say. City_Area is really cool! Love the water. Looks WAY better than T3 city IMO. shot some arrows, blackjack a gaurd, killed some zombies. The menus are awesome! ------------------------------------ Anyway, back to my stuff. Here's an almost complete Lantern Bot. I started with a 512x512 tex but spaced out probs with multiple textures, so it'll change to 1024x1024 and I'll combine the seperate textures I used. I was going for a combo of mainly copper and brass. Tested with a quick specular in Max and that helps alot. I think I've got the copper pretty good, brass needs work imo. I'll probably change the bottom tex (squares by legs), but other than that I'd like some opinions on textures, ect... before I finalize it. I think I got a pretty good steampunk/victorian theme going, although the fancy setail might need a bit o work too.

It was Rum and Cokes the other night, of course last night was Cinco De Mayo (so Tequila), that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it.