jay pettitt

Most Thief FMs you're not actually distributing Eidos owned IP. It's the new stuff you distribute. The textures and so on are already installed on the target machine. But yeah, it would seem to be in the spirit of the competition to use TDM to create a mod for the Thief universe ~ in which case there might be some question about distributing it. At least hypothetically.

The EULA for the comp says you can enter the competition but you can't distribute a mod containing anything that's owned by Eidos - so I guess that covers TDM/Eidos IP angle. Are you guys going to stay in touch and maybe help judge entries and whatnot?

The new NVidia architecture looks interesting - doubling power per watt. The new 750Ti card is dinky and runs half as hot as anything close. So basically you're gonna be able to get laptops (and actual portable ones too) and all-in-ones with proper gaming chops and steam machines that aren't monsters.

I watched some twitch feed last night. Obviously spoilers, spoilers, spoilers so anyone actually interested in NuThief really shouldn't... but umm yeah. It's like Deadly Shadows all over again. If you went now and watched a youtube of someone playing the city hub in 10 year old TDS with the dodgy AI, the bugs, voice acting that makes you cringe and the general trivialness of it all... That's pretty much the exact same experience. There's some nice touches now and then, some of it's good (I saw a perfectly nice cutscence), but the overall impression is just 'wow - that's an awful lot of bad'. I wasn't expecting great things. But I was expecting an okay game (even if not an okay Thief game, if you see what I mean). I have to say I was dissapointed. On a bad day one might grumble that The Dark Mod has its rough edges and its amateurish bits. But it's not just closer to the original Thief games. TDM is genuinely a more polished/professional/rounded product than what I watched last night. But maybe watching an hour or two of twitch feed doesn't do the game justice.

It seems like they're already on it with the mod contest.

I guess the proposition is that TDM gets some fresh interest and Eidos get to be seen playing nice with the traditional Thief community. --edit-- oh, that and given that it's confirmed that Theif 4 won't have mission editing tools and that there's a strong modding community maybe it's a nice gesture to at least do something for those of us who play or make fan missions - even if it's a small thing that isn't an editor.

Oh okay. Though Thief 2 (and TDS) was 12 in Europeland ~ which would be what I remember. While apparently the Dark Project was a 16 ('cos scary )

I guess it's all too late in the day seeing as the comp is teetering on the edge of another announcement... But if TDM could infulence the competition to open it to entrants outside the US and folk under the age of 18 it'd be nice. Thief 4 might be 18 rated, but traditionally Thief has been 12+ hasn't it?

I already have. In the post you were replying to. All you did was repeat the same questionable claims over. It would be tiresome to go over them yet again. Look, you're asserting that 'immersion' is delicate and precarious. Which is plainly bunk. You're sitting in a house, at a desk interpreting some fairly rudimentary sounds and some images on a 2D display where human behaviour is reduced to patrol routes and you've got a keyboard or a little controller in your hands and then... Bazzam! - you're figuratively transported into a convincing 3D alternate world. The ability for the human psyche to be fooled knows no bounds. That's just psychology 101. Sure you can go wrong. You can fall into the uncanny valley. Or bore people to a stupor. But fooling human minds is very definitely not rocket science. Ooodles of 'immersive' games have flashing whirring spinning HUD elements. Games people you like, like a lot. Games like System Shock. It helps of course that the HUD elements fit the sci-fi theme. Something that wouldn't be true with Thief. But you know what: the Shroud is EM making a feedback system that's got a naturalistic theme that is fitting for a Thief game. And all power to them. I'm keen to try it. (not £30 keen, granted, but maybe Steam Sale keen).

Wut wut You defended the shields because they sit at the edge of the screen. As opposed to the shroud which exists at the periphery. And that they didn't change or animate. Unless there's, ya know, a change in state... I gotta say, you're not convincing me.

Oh right, the shields are at the edge of the screen. I see.

oookay. So the poster who says... "Yes, a Flashing Shroud inhibits immersion without question..." ...wants the other poster to justify themselves. Actually, the shroud inhibiting immersion is very questionable. It's questionable on the grounds that human psychology (which is at the root of immersion) is quite capable of doing its thing in numerous scenarios. It's questionable on the basis that it's no more an immersion breaker than, say, a row of health shields or any other gamey feedback system. It's questionable on the grounds of pragmatism - that games need additional feedback systems, so it's desirable to have compromises anyway. It's questionable on the basis that it's actually just a very minimalistic, neat feedback system that adds additional value to something (a vignette) that many people would think desirable on its own. And I'm sure more besides.

Yeah I think you might be over egging it just a tiny bit.

It is bizarre that the options are hugely comprehensive. Over the top so, but that they don't let you turn pretty much that one thing off. Maybe there's a technical thing with how HUD elements are rendered that makes the shroud different somehow... but it is odd. But pfft, I doubt it'll be the worst thing in T4, and if it is... hray.

It's at the edges. They're brief (over in a flash). They're even low opacity. What's hard?

I'm pretty much with jtr here. The options seem very comprehensive - so hats off. But I'm sceptical (cynical?) about trying to please everyone with options. Fundamentally what I really want to see is interesting game design that's strong enough to stand on its own merit. And seeing as its a Thief game, strong enough to stand shoulder to shoulder with T1 and T2. That's the bar that has been set. Also that Thief probably hasn't done enough to distance itself from T1 and T2. Because the bar really has been set very, very high. NuThief is going to struggle to get close, let alone better Dishonored. The setting and the characters are new. But also they're not. If EM had done something wildly different I think folk wouldn't be wondering why the vocal work doesn't really compare to the originals or whether it will be a masterpiece of emergent game design and what have you. Probably if you've only played T3 on Xbox, or if you're new to Thief games generally you'd be able to judge NuThief on it's own strengths and weaknesses ~ whatever they are. Otherwise it's asking to be compared to some of the most outstanding examples of video games ever in the history of everything. Granted, it's odd when the other options seem so comprehensive. But it's hardly something to lose sleep over - it's pretty subtle. (not that being subtle is a reason to insist on it being a permanent feature.) I'm not sure what the justification for the trinary light gem is. It's there, but it's not much help to the player it seems.

Why Ugh!?

I'm hazy, but that was Eidos Proper and Rob Dyer. Nothing to do with LGS and I'm not sure even Ion Storm. If it were, it's as likely to be kicking ideas around as anything else. Either way, I don't have any problem at all with the idea of a modern day Thief. --edit-- No wait - there's some background here. I'm still fine with it. Obviously I've not played EM's or IonStorm/Eidos Interactive's T4s, but I'd much much rather play a modern Thief done right than a medieval Thief done wrong.

If I was a veg & fish arian, I'd be slightly alarmed at the prospect of 100% horse meat in my fish fingers.

*May contain up to 100% horse-meat.

Why not github?

Yes, I did have to double take.

We'll run low on eggs soon.

TTLG has a front page? Who knew?

...I had to double take anyways... I'm sure some will disagree, but I'd argue that T3 wasn't a strong title. If you presume that a sizeable bunch of the existing Thief fanbase only played T3 via their xboxes or whatever, then I don't think you've got a compelling reason to stick with the old factions. And I think Thief 3 did a lot to harm the factions for those who remember the Looking Glass games: the Hammers, and especially the Pagans, and especially especially the Keepers were reduced to the farcical. They could have called it Thief: Carry On Keepers tbh. Plus the addition of new, low value, beast factions just kinda served to devalue all the factions further. Hell, throw some more in why not. So while I think the Hammers and Pagans and Keepers in T1 and T2 were strong story elements, I'd not grumble too hard that EM want to go somewhere else. T3 was a tough act to follow for all the wrong reasons. What I find puzzling is why they then decided to confuse their fresh start by calling their protagonist Garrett.