Klatremus

Ironically, if you edit that, it might be very difficult to get in there for Supreme, as you're not allowed to turn off cameras for that mode. There's no loot but there is a strange fable. But dont let that sway you, it'll be a nice challenge nonetheless. Btw that makes me wonder, there is no way to steal the shop items without taking out the shop owner, right?

Thanks! One thing I noticed is that the weapon shop owner doesn't react to any sounds you make in the back of the shop. Naturally, he is friendly to anyone entering the front, but I still imagine he would react to activities elsewhere in his establishment. Perhaps that is difficult to script, I'm not sure.

Aha! I see what you did with the mysteries of the void there. You sneaky bugger. Any hint to what part of town the other one is in?

It's the drop from the sill onto the floor inside Cloak & Dagger that gives the alert. It doesn't wake him up, so it's technically not a Supreme bust, but if you use the stealth stat tool it shows that he hears it as a level 1 alert. I'm just comparing to the first run without your new script which didn't give this alert. Yeah outside the window nobody alerts, as it is not hostile territory.

Tried a bit more of the beta version. It is definitely tougher inside enemy territory, but much more immersive. I could no longer enter Cloak & Dagger's top floor window without a level 1 alert for example. Had to muffle the drop with a soft item to get in there Supreme clean. I assume there will be plenty of similar situations later. One more question:

No ghost mode has the requirement to get all the loot. If you do, the run is denoted Perfect Supreme Ghost, or Perfect Thief for regular Ghost. Rarely is that possible for Supreme, but sometimes. It is definitely not possible for any mode in this mission. I deleted my fms folder and redownloaded both the regular v1.12 and the beta. Hopefully that will fix any errors as I test the latter. Won't get to that until this weekend though.

If it was always your intention for them to react to the door, then I would be hesitant recommending changing that. I never like authors modifying the mission in order to "appease" ghosters. However, your solution of having them now patrol the vault is a good idea and it would fix the issue. I should also say that it doesn't bust any ghost playthrough either way. The regular Ghost mode allows for enemies alerting to doors being open, it's just for the more extreme Supreme Ghost that this isn't allowed (my preferred playstyle). But even there it would only mean the player would skip that vault entirely and not get the loot, but it wouldn't bust the entire playthrough. On another note, I just couldn't help myself and had to fire up the beta version with the script. I quickly visited the Hartwood House and the result is brilliant. The woman alerted like normal to me jumping around, but as soon as I stepped outside, she didn't care. Likewise, the sleeping bloke upstairs heard me walking too heavily on the stairs and woke up like normal, yet if I jumped on the metal chain outside the window, he didn't wake up. Perfect! I will do a re-ghost of the entire Red Rook area and note issues, if any. This of course makes that entire part of town a lot tougher to ghost, but as mentioned before this increases the tension and realism drastically. Did you also apply this script to Rookbridge and the Brewbower area? I can't remember if these areas also had the same issues.

If those guards are not supposed to even notice the door being open, then yes please fix it. As it is now, I have to skip the loot in there for Supreme Ghost, as you're not allowed to let enemies react to open doors for that mode. I don't want you to change the mission just for that mode, but if that was always your intention then it's ok. I am going to make a Supreme Ghost let's play of this mission, but I won't start that until all potential fixes have been fleshed out. I will try the beta version with the new scripts when I get the chance.

Something must be up with my install or something, cause when I returned to Southbridge, two more enemies had gotten stuck. All I did was download your v1.12 .pk4 file and overwrote the one from the v1.11 fm zip, then restarted the game. Do you recommend something else? Did you see my question about the monument hall door closing above btw? Also, it might not load for you because I do use KCGhost's stealth stat tool which is a mod. You can download it here and hopefully then it loads. Oh and I use TDM v2.10, no dev version. I didn't even know you could extract the .pk4, so no I definitely don't have that.

Here you go! In this save, the guy in Brewbower I managed to free up, and the guy outside monument hall got freed up also; he saw the hall door being open and came to investigate. Wait a minute! I now went back to check on the guard outside monument hall and the door had closed?! The code panel is still busted, but I didn't know this door could be closed. Is there a way to close it manually??

Got another stuck one in SE corner inside Basilica Gate. Would it helping i send a savegame? Not sure if that will help determine why they are stuck, rather than just that they are stuck. I'm playing v1.12 before the hotfix. Didnt get any stuck guards on v1.11.

A civilian with a purse in Brewbower got stuck on a lamppost at the far eastern end, where you look down into the Sump. I freed him by taking his purse, because when he reacted to it missing that seemed to reset his pathfinding and he went back to normal patrol. Then the guy in the pump house got stuck just south of the window you leave through to get to Hollowbrook. He was facing away so I could luckily sneak out undetected. A lanternguard in S Sloughgate got stuck at the foot of the stairs right by the entrance to Monument Hall. He was about to walk up but instead kept bumping into the lip of the wall there. And lastly one hooded lanternguard at the southern end of Blackhander Row got stuck on a wagon outside the forgotten house's back entrance. He just stood there pivoting, but didn't move even if he saw me, so he was properly stuck. All the others could move once they detected me. I hope this helps.

Almost done with my ghost run now, but I'll definitely take a look after that. The lack of tension while ghosting areas that are supposed to be hostile in most of Red Rook is the biggest con I have so far. Hollowbrook is a whole different story since everyone is fully hostile there. Got 4 stuck guards in total, which was strange.

Makes sense, thanks. Another question (sorry I've got so many):

Thanks for that. One other thing I noticed while ghosting this. In hardly any of the buildings marked as 'hostile' south of the bridge do the inhabitants react to sounds you make. Is this right? For example in the Dreamer's Alter, I can jump around on tile right behind the woman, but no reaction. Then as soon as she turns around and sees me, she draws her weapon. The same goes for a lot of other buildings.

Is the bug in v1.12 game breaking? I started ghosting now after your first update, but don't want to restart if the hotfix is just nipickings. Or can I just replace it without a restart? I kinda doubt it.

Thanks! Regarding the scroll on top of that beam I talked about a few days ago. I had to resort to cheat spawning a rope arrow to get up there. I assume there are none in the mission. I wasn't able to get up with crates nor with climbing/jumping. You said it was possible because several others had done it. Do you know where they jumped from, or some more details about the method involved? Since it contains an objective, I'd really like to be able to get it without cheating. Edit: Never mind. Not even 2 minutes later I found the method. Yay! Also, I have discovered the following objectives besides the starting ones. Please let me know if there are more:

Ok I finally got it all. Had to resort to the loot cheat for a few of the last items, mostly those devilishly well-camouflaged gray coins. I found a few loot errors though:

No don't ever change your mission to accommodate Ghost rules, that just makes the mission too easy. Us ghosters will figure out way around the problems, it's more fun that way. And yes you have to play on highest difficulty.

What an outstanding mission, WellingtonCrab! I haven't played that many for TDM, but this is by far the best one. And compare to Thief, it is up there in my all time top 10. Just finished and got 13953 loot on the first playthrough. I think I found all the mementos (18), because I got a changed ending and I had to go on the forum to realize what I had to do. Rather grim, I must say. But I guess it follow the narrative of the story. The wording of the new objective really confirmed what I suspected throughout; A few questions: Also, I have made a loot list here. Before heading through town to scour for the remaining loot, can anyone spot any major areas I have completely missed by looking at that list? No direct spoilers, but if anyone sees obvious stuff not there and can point me in the right direction, I'd appreciate it. This ghost run will be a handful, not to mention Supreme!

Aha of course! I took his scroll early on, but it has been so long I forgot. Thanks

Any loose hints to the code for

Played this for about an hour on TDM2.10 and gotten tons of random crashes to desktop. There is a patch in the first post, but the link is dead. Anyone?