snatcher

Blinking arrow indicators in the middle of nearby doors indicating which way a door opens (up arrow: forward; down arrow: backwards) would be perfect for this dynamic to work organically. But get ready for a revolt in the boards

Oh, and I haven't gotten started with closing doors. I just can't think of everything right now. The initial feeling is what counts. Does it feel right? Brain adjustments and muscle memory will soon kick in and I will get used to the mechanic and its shortcomings. Of course, impressions can differ from player to player.

Thank you very much ! Initial tests running like crazy on a random map... opening doors that slide in the direction you are going is absolutely satisfying. Stumbling upon doors that slide towards you is getting frustrating mainly because the door opens and my area of movement gets reduced. Lessons learned: let's re-plan and try approaching doors from the opposite angle the door should open (I must think this way for all doors now) my brain cannot parse everything: where I come from, where I am going, what's ahead, what's behind (AI chasing sounds), how do I approach that next door. I would really love to test a version in which if the door opens in the opposite direction I get a "uh" sound and the door does not open.

Thank you very much but:

@Obsttorte, Can we somehow test your prototype in any map or is it linked to the demo map? I would like to test the current offering under different scenarios.

Very professional demonstration, Obsttorte. Thank you very much! Here is some food for thought for you: 1) Door opening in the same direction not only looked great in the video but it plays great! As Wellingtoncrab puts it: spot on! A keeper! 2) I admit I was reluctant about having the ability to close doors behind but having played with your demo I must say you made it work pretty well. You had a vision I didn't and you proved it works. Regardless, I am not that convinced we want it. If you give players the ability to quickly close doors behind, then players will quickly learn that AI can (and will) get blocked by the very first door. Effective? Yes. Engaging? Hmm. For this new ability to be engaging AI should also have the ability to slam doors open so it gives players just a little advantage towards success. On the contrary, if players know they cannot close doors behind unless they risk a difficult move then the chase goes on, making it for a lasting, more engaging experience, imho. 3) Doors opening in the opposite direction come with the problems we already anticipated. Do we agree the vast majority of players will use these new features to run away from (already alerted) AI? Then that's our game dynamic. This isn't then about adding new abilities, it is about making this new game dynamic an engaging experience. For a thrilling experience to work players must trust your game dynamics and as a developer, you want players to avoid punishment at all costs. Let's go for that door! s**t, I am stuck. Carry on, let's go for that one, coool it opened my way. Run, there, another one, s**t I am stuck. It is impossible to tell if a door will open right or not and chances are a thrilling run away will soon turn into a nightmare simply because players cannot control the new dynamic and they get constantly punished. If the game dynamic doesn't work, players will discard your offer and find other uses for the abilities. Happy to discuss further.

I am trying to help and right now I am in mode: "what's the absolute minimum we (you) need to have something that can be considered full". On your question, you are fleeing in this direction and go for this door. What's the optimal outcome...? ...to prevent the inevitable and keep this new dynamic engaging? Because, perhaps, on a second thought you'd rather pass and keep going straight.

Opening a door towards you will not work. At least, organically. You can clearly foresee the problems if you try in-game now. For it to work you must be able to frob it 3, 4, 5 meters ahead of time. Or the door must open in a nano second. Or the door must become transparent to the player. Otherwise you will get stuck. Bottom-line is that it requires an unrealistic gimmick of some kind. On the contrary, quickly opening doors when doors open in the direction you are going should be pretty easy to implement. the only gimmick, which is realistic, is that the door opens faster not to get you stuck. I think all we need as a first version of the prototype is: You are running, the door isn't locked and it opens in the right direction: open the door faster You are running, the door isn't locked and it opens in the opposite direction: Don't open the door! whisper a "damn it" instead (let me decide what to do).

I don't see any practical use of quickly opening doors other than to allow for a dynamic and exciting run away, chase or pursuit. And in these cases it makes sense that some kind of mess is left behind. Therefore I am not sure doors should close automatically considering: 1. The fact that the door remains open is the natural outcome mainly because the player didn't trigger any action in any other direction. Any different and it will become a game mechanic that players must learn and get used to. 2. Following AI could get stuck by the very first door breaking a dynamic chase too soon

(Always while running) If a door opens in the opposite direction, instead of opining the door the same we could hear a "uh" sound. Not sure if I want that door opening given the case.

Good point. So it would only work if the door opens in the direction you are running, otherwise: wrong way, mate. Simple, and it prevents other issues. I like it. Fair enough. If anyone is behind that door, or opening the door: wrong way, mate.

In the light of a post by Obsttorte, I am opening a dedicated topic for discussion: Some thoughts of mine, trying to keep existing mechanics in mind: The feature should work with regular, standard doors only: avoid sliding / custom / fancy-opening doors... Locked doors will stop you to a halt, obviously. The door-opening animation must be way faster, obviously. Because doors can open towards you, we will probably have to make doors frobable before their time (when running). Forget, at least for now, about "slamming doors close" when running. Not only it is difficult to achieve with the mouse and keyboard but it would make AI following you look clumsy (unless they learn to slam doors as well). Let's not think about "slam door sounds" for now. Current sounds perhaps work just fine. And now the fun stuff: To keep things simple, slamming a door open would make AI react just like if a heavy object was thrown to a non-carpeted floor in that point. AI that is right behind that door gets pushed away (if the door opens towards them, that is). What's important here is that nearby AI get out of your way. We can further elaborate the idea: On duty: AI gets pushed and fall to the floor but stand up right after OR AI gets pushed and goes into "flash-bomb" mode. Civilians: Random possibility for civilians to remain permanently knocked out on the floor? Undead: I don't know. Zombies get torn to pieces? Discuss!

This is an exciting idea full of possibilities and I am glad it was brought up by an active dev. Can it have its own topic? I find it weird so many related - but different - things get discussed in a single thread. It makes the different board sections dull and searches ineffective.

You could keep your work for yourself but opted to share it. You care for the game and fine folk around will appreciate your fixes, I am sure.

Hi Nort, I checked your patch but I am afraid I cannot appreciate it as much as you probably deserve. Sorry. From the Readme it looks it is more about internal stuff... interesting fixes I guess but I don't recall in the missions I played any of the issues you describe. This does not mean these issues don't exist and can show up up anytime therefore: thanks for the effort. I hope your work doesn't go to waste and makes it into the core mod, in one form or another.

4th version of the script. I altered it so that when you are running and stop, you are back to "walking" mode. It feels quite natural now, considering the limitations. ------------------------------------ If anyone wants to put it to test, follow below instructions (please note it takes some time to get used to it): Download AutoHotkey, install it, open Notepad, paste the below script inside, save it as TDM.ahk and double click on the file you just saved. Settings > Controls > Weapons: Remove mouse wheel bindings from Next Weapon and Previous Weapon (or from any other setting you may have set the mouse wheel to) Settings > Controls > General: Make sure Toggle Crouch is enabled and Always Run is disabled Settings > Controls > Movement: The Forward, Run and Creep keys must match in both TDM and the script. To end the script, go to the Windows taskbar, look for a green icon with an "H", right click on it and select Exit. Known limitations: You can turn pages and numbered dials using Next Inv. Item / Prev Inv. Item. To prepare for a long jump from idle, move the mouse wheel up before executing your move You cannot move objects you are holding back and forth You cannot lean forward and switch speeds at the same time, for some reason Warning: fighting is as cumbersome as ever! ; ===================================== ; Adjust player speed with mouse wheel ; ------------------------------------- ; An AutoHotkey script for The Dark Mod ; version 4.0 by Obsttorte & snatcher ; ===================================== ; ------------------------------------- ; Configure your keys below ; ------------------------------------- ; In-game move forward key key_forward = w ; In-game creep key key_creep = c ; In-game run key key_run = r ; ------------------------------------- ; Do not edit anything past this point ; ------------------------------------- speed = 0 ; init speed (-1 = creep | 0 = walk [default] | 1 = run) steps = 1 ; amount of mouse wheel steps needed for switching state [default = 1) state = speed * steps ; counter for state switch #IfWinActive ahk_exe TheDarkModx64.exe ; run only when TDM is focused HotKey, *~%key_forward% up, keyForwardHandler return keyForwardHandler: if (speed == 1) ; we are running { speed = 0 ; walk Send {%key_run% up} } return *wheelup:: state += 1 if (state >= steps) { if (speed == -1) ; we are creeping { speed = 0 ; walk Send {%key_creep% up} } else if (speed == 0) ; we are walking { speed = 1 ; run Send {%key_run% down} } state = 0 } return *wheeldown:: state -= 1 if (state <= steps * -1) { if (speed == 0) ; we are walking { speed = -1 ; creep Send {%key_creep% down} } else if (speed == 1) ; we are running { speed = 0 ; walk Send {%key_run% up} } state = 0 } return Cheers!

Sorry, English isn't my native language. I am trying to say that different words or names can change the perception of a thing, although we are still talking about the exact same thing. I don't care if the helper is default or not. I am set. I just shared a personal observation: this exists, it is well programmed, and I would have liked to know about it from the get-go. Perhaps others would as well. Cheers!

Is "Helper" perceived as a cheat of some kind? How about renaming the Frob Helper to "Frob Assistant"? For me the Helper is nothing but: Hey, I noticed you are looking at an object you can interact with, here is the center of the screen in case you need it. Also, can the Helper be made available on frobable (unconscious/dead) bodies? You know, to assist in setting up the perfect crime scene...

In reference to your second paragraph: not in my experience. But then, I haven't played all missions (yet).

I never gave a damn about the noise metter in SC. I trusted devs did their job and when there was white noise around I assumed I could get away with more of my own noise. It worked as far as I recall.

Forget about pocket knifes or scalpels, lore says Corvan has a built-in cutting tool for paintings

I don't know, it's the best I can come up with without over-complicating things. You didn't add enough pressure the last time(s) and the scalpel didn't cut through, perhaps?

Yes, as the thief you are you will stealing a painting carefully trying not to damage it beyond repair and without being seen nor noticed.

Thanks for the link, wesp5! Yes, I tried the different built-in outline options. My conclusion is that we are not addressing the underlying problem, hence the ongoing discussion and disagreements. I will check your "dark version of the Frob Outline" out. Cool! but when you build the house, you don't start with the roof The problem with suggestions is that things can go south pretty fast, and while a good brainstorming can bring new and/or greater ideas, we many times lose focus and end up alienating developers. I try to bring to the table reasonable ideas that could be integrated into the environment that we already have without much hassle by recycling existing assets or mechanics. While I could agree, this hardly has to do with game mechanics but with how these mechanics are put to work by mission makers. A different story altogether.

Sorry. Yes, the Frob Outline has been briefly discussed in that topic and extensively in other topics. I am proposing something different. Where can I find your Unofficial Patch, by the way?