Need Help

[SneaksieDave]

Descriptive enough? Well it's about where I am in this whole thing - defeated at the front door.

 

Believe it or not, I've spent the whole damned day trying to remove a single polygon (or square, so I guess two polygons?) from a model. Here's how it's gone.

 

1. "I'm going to use the existing candle models to make an alternate version using the fire particles and the light extinguishable. I will plunk them down in a map and everyone will be pleasantly surprised and there will be celebrations in the streets."

2. Blender doesn't open LWO. Okay, use import. That worked, there's the model. Cool; the triangle(s) have been deleted. Export to LWO...

3. No model in the object browser. No model in game. Or a chopped in half with screwed up triangles model in game. Or a model that when I change views knocks me into oblivion in D3Ed, sending my viewports into the unknown. Or a model which vanishes when you deselect it. Or simply a black box. Maybe it needs texture info that's not being imported properly from LWO... Blender is showing me materials which have the names chopped off at like 20 chars. Surely that's just an interface thing... no, apparently it stops at "/h"... um, triangulation? UV mapping? What you say!! I want to delete a single goddamn square!

4. Repeat steps 2 and 3 at least 15 times in different ways, for hours.

5. Hey wait, I know! Try syncing to CVS and get an old revision! There was a time when the model didn't have flame, I think. This didn't work. The oldest revision I could get was 1.1 and it did have the triangles.

6. Find out the ASE *is* 3DS. Oh, I didn't know that. Start over the process in 2, 3 again, only saving out as 3DS. Huh, that doesn't read as ASE, and I can't export as ASE. Read and find out special third party addons are needed. Sigh heavily.

7. Use a hex editor(!) to change one character of the materials path in the original candle model, hoping that Doom will not find the texture and thus not draw anything there. Doesn't work. Changing one character breaks the whole model apparently.

8. Begin reading tutorials on Doom3world. They don't help.

9. Give up on the task, and the hopes of making a surprise, around 5 hours later, post here.

 

 

I'd like to make a moving, extinguishable, particle using candle that can be held and carried around (to replace the squirt bottles in torchtest.map) with knowledge gained over the past few days.

 

Best option, self sufficiency: Please instruct me as to how the hell I am to either:

-do such a task

-work with LWO or ASE in Blender (in other words, anything that D3 can handle)

-in a way that other tutorials didn't indicate, because yeah I'm a noob with Blender by my god they didn't help one bit, or

 

Less desirable option, because no knowledge/usefullness is gained:

-can I just get a version of the candle without the damn triangles at the flame

 

*cry*

 

 

Edit: Maybe I should just go with the less desirable option, because seeing what goes into UVW mapping (yes, I'm still trying to figure it out), I don't think I want any part of this.

[OrbWeaver]

Could you be a little more specific as to what you are attempting? Blender should be able to process both LWO and ASE but I'd need to know exactly what you are trying to do in order to give any advice.

[SneaksieDave]

Doh! I thought I did.

 

I'm very simply trying to remove the "flame" polys (there are either two triangles or one square, I don't know) at the top of candlestick1.lwo. That way, the Doom3 texture flame won't show, and I'm free to set it up with particle fire and extinguishable light.

[OrbWeaver]

OK, things to watch out for:

 

1) The Blender LWO import does not support UVs for some reason. There is a LWO script which imports UVs which I cannot currently find on Google, hopefully it is somewhere on my hard drive however.

2) When it comes to export, using ASE is better than LWO from Blender due to limitations on the length of material names (which have to specify the complete name of the Doom 3 material).

 

Provided I can dig up the LWO import script it should be relatively easy to do what you need.

 

EDIT: This seems to be the LWO import script: http://uaraus.altervista.org/index.php?fil...O_importer.html

[SneaksieDave]

Hooray! thank you. I will try this out right after I finish reading here. One problem in advance: last night I downloaded this:

 

http://www.doom3world.org/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=15404

 

and this:

 

http://www.doom3world.org/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=9275

 

and neither work. For the former, trying to open for instance the viktrola,

 

Using Python version 2.4
'import site' failed; use -v for traceback
Traceback (most recent call last):
 File "<string>", line 384, in read_ui
AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'PupBlock'

 

For the latter, the same except for the line error,

Traceback (most recent call last):
 File "<string>", line 1130, in write_ui
AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'PupBlock'

 

So I still have no ASE exporter, even. I assume if I can import anything (and I can open the candlestick1.lwo) then python must be working. What gives, any idea? It cracks me up (not really) that although other people in those threads mention errors, it is never what I get, and at the end of the threads, it's all thumbs up, everything working. Not. I can't believe I wasted a whole day with no success.

 

Edit: Ah, crap. From the site you linked for the script

Last version

 

release 0.2.2 in .zip format

Added some more control to deal with malformed files

This release is currently bundled with Blender 2.40

within the file there are direction for script use.

 

So apparently I already have it. I'm assuming "using" a script involves, um, choosing export from the File menu. Am I skipping some vital, user-friendly step? Argh, why does nothing work?

[OrbWeaver]

I often get python errors, usually cause by having the wrong version of Python, PYTHONPATH set incorrectly or something like that. I know the export script does work but I haven't tried the import script yet.

 

It cracks me up (not really) that although other people in those threads mention errors, it is never what I get, and at the end of the threads, it's all thumbs up, everything working. Not. I can't believe I wasted a whole day with no success.

 

You think that's annoying, wait until you find a thread that asks about your exact problem, followed up by a response from the original poster saying "never mind, sorted it" with NO SOLUTION POSTED AT ALL.

[SneaksieDave]

Can we do a brief step by step?

 

-Open Blender.

Console reports:

Using Python version 2.4
'import site' failed; use -v for traceback

If all is okay so far,

 

-Check file paths.

the field called "Python:" is blank. It is, every single time I start up, so I keep resetting it. I choose d:\programs\blender\.blender\scripts.

Is this correct? I've noticed that even if I choose c:\, the import still acts the same, so it's no indication to me if it's working or not.

 

-File|Import|Lightwave & Materials (LWO)...

 

-Browse to \models\darkmod\props\lights\extinguishable

 

-Import candlestick1.lwo

 

-I see the model in Blender. I see the square I wish to remove. I see Blender's default cube. I delete them both. I check textured mode, and there are no textures. So either this doesn't work in Blender, or already something is screwed up with the import script.

 

-Noting that the candle and base are two separate objects (important?) I choose File|Export|LWO. Write the file out and try it in Doom. Then I get any of the results listed in my first post.

 

With actions that simple, and these problems, I can't understand anyone getting anything done with this thing. Ideas?

 

Edit: I'll also note that simply importing and then exporting (skipping the deletions) doesn't work either.

[OrbWeaver]

-Open Blender.

Console reports:

Using Python version 2.4
'import site' failed; use -v for traceback

If all is okay so far,

 

I don't think you should be seeing that message, I certainly don't get it.

 

Can you open up a command prompt and type "python"? Do you have Python installed?

 

-Check file paths.

the field called "Python:" is blank. It is, every single time I start up, so I keep resetting it. I choose d:\programs\blender\.blender\scripts.

Is this correct? I've noticed that even if I choose c:\, the import still acts the same, so it's no indication to me if it's working or not.

 

I've never touched that field, I didn't even know it existed. I'm pretty sure that if that needs to be set, it should be set to your Python installation not the scripts folder, but in my experience having Python in your Windows path (and possibly setting the PYTHONPATH variable as well) should be sufficient to run these scripts.

[SneaksieDave]

I don't think you should be seeing that message, I certainly don't get it.

Can you open up a command prompt and type "python"? Do you have Python installed?

I have a glimmer of hope. Typing that at the console doesn't do anything, however, I've installed Blender. It apparently uses Python (and includes a python DLL in the installation). I've installed Blade of Darkness, and that definitely makes use of python.

 

If I've installed those things, why would I need some separate install? How would they be working? And why wouldn't they make this a mandatory part of the install? I am able to import the LWO objects, just not to a desirable result. I'd assume that means python has to be working on that DLL, right?

 

Edit: Just verified, there is one download package on the homepage, and it doesn't instruct me to install some python package. In fact,

 

MS Windows Zip, Python 2.4, 98/ME/2000/XP (6.3 MB)

 

...

Installation instructions

To install Blender, download the appropriate package for your platform to your computer. The Windows version comes with a self-extracting installer, for other operating systems you can unpack the compressed file to the location of your choice. There is a more detailed installation guide chapter in the Blender Documentation Project, to guide you through installing and starting Blender on Windows, Linux and Mac OS X.

 

/Edit

 

PYTHONPATH

I looked around for a config file or a place in the UI for that, but didn't find it. Where is that? I've got Blender 2.40.

 

Edit2:

There is a Python24.zip in the blender install folder, however the folder is only some scripts (.py). I tried extracting them into a folder of their own, and pointing the Python: variable at them, but that didn't help. Am I crazy or is this just unnecessarily hard?

[OrbWeaver]

You don't require a Python installation to use Blender itself, but it is required by some scripts. I recommend installing ActivePython, and making sure that you can run "python" from a command prompt before using these scripts.

[OrbWeaver]

I have tried importing the candlestick1.lwo and it imports fine, however there do not seem to be any UVs on the object (the material names are ok).

 

Can anyone with LightWave confirm whether there is supposed to be a UV map on this object? If so, then there is a problem with the LWO import script.

[SneaksieDave]

I'm going to probably backup my system and try a new install of Blender and the activepython thing, unless someone indicates there is a problem with the script. In the meantime, I'll start a thread just to request the models, as I have a feeling this is going to take me a while (I still need to learn Blender).

[Dram]

Hey Sneaksie, this can be done quite simply, without editing the model.

 

Firstly, is the flame a different material? I'm presuming yes

Secondly, just make a skin and change that part of the model to material common/nodraw. Done!

 

Without going crazy!

 

Ok, just checked it. All you need to do is make a skin which replaces "textures/particles/candlefire" with "textures/common/nodraw"

 

 

 

Or if you just simply do not want the flame there I can open it up and remove it.

[Dram]

Ok, for a skin this is all you'd need:

 

skin candlestick_noflame
{
model models/darkmod/props/lights/extinguishable/candlestick2.lwo
textures/particles/candlefire
textures/common/nodraw
}

 

 

That should work. I was planning to do this for many of my models where skins change what you see. Almost all the ID characters do this, where when you gib them everything getrs set to nodraw apart from the skeleton in each which becomes textured.

[SneaksieDave]

Thanks Dram! I will try this. The only thing I'm not getting from looking right at it is, how does that tell it to put nodraw on the right spot? (the flame) Anyway, maybe it's just an ordering thing. Edit: I think I get it - it's just a swap of name for name?

 

Assuming this works, then there's only one potential problem. Hopefully a skin can be assigned to an object definition (I assume it can) so that people will actually know this version exists. I wouldn't assume to check the skin of a candle to control the particle effect.

 

Or if you just simply do not want the flame there I can open it up and remove it.

Because of the problem listed, I might still take you up on that, we'll see... What are you using to do so, Milkshape? I almost downloaded that the other day but it sounded low poly only, and I know all jack about modelers anyway.

[SneaksieDave]

Ugh. Next step, what is the flashing part of the skin? It's flashing for some reason. I assume that's the id candle skin... candles which can't be doused. :-\

 

Edit: and the wick doesn't snap to the grid, causing alignment probs with the flame.

Sigh, this is all stuff that will need fixing anyway, so I might have to ask for new versions (or at least how to make them myself).

[Dram]

Oh yeah, I forgot about the glowing candle stick. Yeah you'll need to make the skin change that too. I use Milkshape for simple things like these and converting from format to format. Simple and quick. I'm learning max and lightwave. Very slowly but I'll get there eventually.

 

I think I'll just go ahead and make different versions of the candle, much simpler. Then we can have it swap the model.

[SneaksieDave]

Waiiiiit! It's already underway. There might come need for such a thing, but for right now you probably might as well not waste time on it. I should have candles for everyone to see shortly.

 

Perhaps I'll download milkshape too. If it's good for low poly stuff, then it should do whatever I need. I don't plan on making characters.

[Dram]

Yeah I just read the other thread

 

Yeah Milkshape is simple and easy to use. I would'nt say it's too low poly though, I make ships for Orbiter with 20000 polys. It just doesnt like importing lwos with a high poly count hehe.

[SneaksieDave]

I just found out (after installing MS3D) that it isn't free? ROFL, it's already the worst looking modeller I've seen of the bunch, but he also wants money? I don't even think I'd bother with warez.

 

/uninstall

 

Back to being unable to import or export LWO and ASE in Blender I guess.

[SneaksieDave]

Ayup.

 

Import Patch:  D:\games\Doom3\darkmod\models\darkmod\architecture\irongate.ase
Read file
Import Objects
Traceback (most recent call last):
 File "<string>", line 392, in read_ui
 File "<string>", line 53, in read_main
 File "<string>", line 279, in read_file
 File "<string>", line 296, in spawn_main
 File "<string>", line 314, in spawn_mesh
ValueError: expected 3x3 or 4x4 matrix

 

This is with versions 2.40 and 2.42a, and with active python 2.4.3 installed, selecting on the import: vertex color, UV, both, or neither. Script header is "'ASCII Scene (.ase) v0.1'". Is this even the right script?

 

So everyone can do this except me. Even our new arrows are ASE. ascottk, are you using Blender?

[SneaksieDave]

OrbWeaver, did you ever end up trying that ASE importer, and if so, did it work? I can still get the LWOs to import, but without UV like you said; in fact I think I read that that was a limitation of it. But ASE seems certainly usable and more friendly (as text), so I'd be interested in getting it working.

[ascottk]

So everyone can do this except me. Even our new arrows are ASE. ascottk, are you using Blender?

 

No, 3ds max. I tried blender & I had a hard time doing the simplest things.

[ascottk]

OrbWeaver, did you ever end up trying that ASE importer, and if so, did it work? I can still get the LWOs to import, but without UV like you said; in fact I think I read that that was a limitation of it. But ASE seems certainly usable and more friendly (as text), so I'd be interested in getting it working.

 

Have you tried bitburn?

http://mirex.mypage.sk/index.php?selected=1

[SneaksieDave]

Hm, what's that, a converter? Well, the problem is, I can't get even ASE to open in Blender. I can get LWO to do so, but it has no UV, so ASE seems pretty much to be the format I need. I've even tried (and failed) to open an ASE that says right in it, "Exported from Blender"! Argh.

 

Bah, I should probably just try to do textures and stick to mapping, because this is all time consuming and frustrating with no progress at all.

 

After all, what am I going to make... another vase?