My band's 10 song demo album

[Fingernail]

Whilst I can't boast getting someone pregnant (or even just having had sex (or even IVF)), I have finished 10 demo recordings with my band!

 

a zip file, 35.5Mb, 128kb/s mp3 format, all tagged

 

www.thedebtoffensive.com/thedebtoffensive.zip

 

Featuring 10 original songs written between June 2006 and probably about February 2007 (I have written a lot more during and since that time, but these are the ones we've played). Recorded over this summer in my house with a mixer off ebay, some decent budget mics and a computer. Pretty much all multitracked because we haven't the facility to record more than one instrument/person at a time really, which led to problems of its own.

 

Anyway, enjoy!

[Redface]

Not bad! Some are really classy - like Two birds or Jason, the other sound a bit generic and by generic I mostly mean the singer's performance. They also seem to lack... evolvement ?

[Fingernail]

Thanks, although from my perspective they do all "go somewhere" - either musically or instrumentally - like two birds repeats but with the added percussion and high voice becomes more dramatic - it's like a storm.

 

Thanks again for listening, though. You may find some of them grow on you! Like mould!

[ascottk]

Hey Fingernail! I don't keep up with this style so I don't know how to categorize it The closest I get get is progressive (Green Day? I don't listen to those guys so I don't know). Anyway I like the music but not too keen on the vocals.

 

Also I've been working on my mastering skills:

http://home.comcast.net/~alter-id/audio/mp3player.html

 

& check out my SoundClick page on my sig.

 

If you'd like me to take a stab at mastering your stuff, PM me & we could work something out.

 

As for the mixes:

- The bass drifts in & out (the lower notes stick out too much & disappears in the mix every now & then)

- The drums are too subdued on some tracks (& I like the drums on these tracks). Could use more kick &snare.

- The drums on some tracks are also too right channel centric. They should be more centered.

- the voice is too upfront

- sonically they vary a lot from track to track (one reason for mastering)

 

Ouch, I just loaded these into Audition. "Call it Off" through the rest of the album are severely clipped. The only ones not clipping are #1 "Youth", #2"Days", & #8 "Jason". If you did get these mastered & if you paid money for it, ask for your money back I didn't catch this since I didn't listen all the way through (and I listened to it on my mac which doesn't have the greatest sound). You lose a lot of the definition, and a lot of distortion (and I can hear the distortion in the bass which is pretty bad), with severely clipped digital audio. The vocals suffer as well.

 

Also the low end (below 100 Hz or so) needs to be mono. That's one of the reasons why the bass is so weak. If the low end isn't in mono, then there's a strong chance of the bass being out of phase with the rest of the music (which happens around 3:05 in "Tomorrow").

 

I realize these are mp3s encoded at 128 Kbps. A better option for mp3 would be 192.

 

EDIT:

I've been playing around with "Rick's House" (catchy tune, BTW) and due to the severe compression/clipping & low bitrate mp3 artifacts, this could've been engineered a lot better. The vocals totally drown out the rest of the band with the exception of the guitar. Also work on vocal recording techniques. Often the singers hit the "h" on house & that produces low frequency stuff that really belongs with the bass & kick. Position the mic better so the singers don't sing into the diaphragm straight on. Maybe aim it at an angle. De-essers might help the vocals and apply a nice low frequency roll-off to get rid of those hard "h"s and "p"s.

 

EDIT2:

I just read the MySpace blog & you're using SM58s on the vocals . . . tape a pencil on the head to lessen percussives on the vocals . . .

[Fingernail]

no, I'm not using SM58s on the vocals. Everything was condensers (except the bass drum).

 

And I mastered it myself (pay? I haven't paid for anything!), and I know it clips (it was a concious decision to allow it to clip, like many records do these days). You're obviously paying closer attention to the tiny details than I was, though!

 

If you would like to have a go, I can send you some raw mixes in a lossless compression. The vocals are so high on purpose, just to make the words stick out, but I agree it's too much in many cases. I'm not going to record any more to mitigate the few problems, the sessions are over for this batch. And they are only demos!

 

The problems with the drums will be how they were engineered, although I realize I could play around more at the EQ stage - we did two overheads, one snare and one bass drum mic through a stereo mixer. I did some panning to put the ride cymbal on the right but that could have resulted in too much being over there. It's worse on some tracks than others.

 

In fact, if you use Audition (what version?) I could send you the sessions but they run to an awful lot of Mb, and I don't know if you have everything I used (I employed Izotope plugin for the mastering stuff).

 

Thanks a lot for listening and taking the time to give such in-depth feedback! I'm sorry you don't like the singer, I got a lot of that off TTLG too, and I don't really know what to do because apart from being one of the best members of the band, I also rather like his voice and it just makes me think there's something I'm missing???

[OrbWeaver]

I know it clips (it was a concious decision to allow it to clip, like many records do these days).

 

Huh? I'm no audio tech, but I can't see why anybody would consciously choose digital clipping in a recording (analogue saturation is a different issue).

[Fingernail]

Simply because it is the sound to which people have become accustomed. Indeed, I like the sound of Radiohead's records which clip a fair bit (since the Bends at least, as do Sigur Ros's).

 

I know it's rather contrary, but I also know that these are demos and have to stand out in environments where over compressed recordings stand out (and these days, are the norm) - like on ipods, and in cars - and that since I have access to all of the original mixes I can remaster to my hearts content for people who really want the best fidelity of these demo tracks.

[ascottk]

Simply because it is the sound to which people have become accustomed. Indeed, I like the sound of Radiohead's records which clip a fair bit (since the Bends at least, as do Sigur Ros's).

 

I know it's rather contrary, but I also know that these are demos and have to stand out in environments where over compressed recordings stand out (and these days, are the norm) - like on ipods, and in cars - and that since I have access to all of the original mixes I can remaster to my hearts content for people who really want the best fidelity of these demo tracks.

 

Don't get sucked into the loudness wars please

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war

http://www.barrydiamentaudio.com/loudness.htm

http://www.collisiondetection.net/mt/archi...out_a_viny.html

http://www.mindspring.com/~mrichter/dynamics/dynamics.htm

 

Also a few questions:

How's your listening environment?

• Is your mixing/mastering room acoustically treated?
  
• What reference monitors (speakers) do you use?
  
• Do you use subwoofers or headphones to mix/master?
  

An acoustically treated room is probably the most important thing when you're an audio engineer. You have to watch out for standing waves & reflections that can cause frequency cancellations. Room EQ Wizard is a free utility that tests room acoustics.

 

Good reference monitors mean your mixes translate better to different listening environments like your home stereo, car stereo, ipods, etc.

 

One possible reason your mixes may lack a low end is you're using subwoofers or headphones to mix. If you're using subs then they need to match seamlessly with the rest of your system. I used RoomEQ with my surround sound receiver & found that some frequencies canceled each other out around the 90-100 Hz area. I flipped the phase on the subs & that solved the problem. http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/

 

If you use headphones to mix, often check those mixes on decent monitors. Only using headphones is a big no-no. It's hard to judge the stereo image, it's too "personal" and "in your face", and mixes I heard on headphones have too much bass because people often compensate too much.

 

Here's some other links to check out:

http://www.soundonsound.com/forum

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/May03/arti...udioinstal4.asp

http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html

 

http://emusician.com/tutorials/emusic_doit...ring/index.html

http://www.tweakheadz.com/mastering_your_audio.htm

 

Honestly I think the mixing needs a lot more work.

[Fingernail]

Oh I am very aware of it, I don't pretend it's a good effort at all in that regard. I know all about the loudness wars (people are bored to tears of me railing against modern records) and it may seem an odd choice, but considering these are demos, I chose a sort of mid-ground - you should try listening to a Killers album - seriously, it's ridiculous if you look at the waveform what they do.

 

The environment is absolutely awful, a combination of headphones and a simple consumer hi fi system, on this pc I have surround sound speakers but it's still not great really.

 

What I really need to do at some point is head over to my dad's and use his powered monitors (he's a part time voiceover artist and has a much better set up). However, it's never going to be as good as a professional thing.

 

It doesn't help that everything was recorded in a room with no acoustic treatment whatsoever.

[ascottk]

Okay, I missed your other post (I've only been awake for a couple of hours & I'm not a morning person):

http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?s=&am...st&p=122467

 

no, I'm not using SM58s on the vocals. Everything was condensers (except the bass drum).

It sounded clearer than dynamic mics so I was wondering . . .

 

And I mastered it myself (pay? I haven't paid for anything!), and I know it clips (it was a concious decision to allow it to clip, like many records do these days). You're obviously paying closer attention to the tiny details than I was, though!

I plan on starting my own online mastering service eventually so I need to pay attention to that stuff.

 

If you would like to have a go, I can send you some raw mixes in a lossless compression. The vocals are so high on purpose, just to make the words stick out, but I agree it's too much in many cases. I'm not going to record any more to mitigate the few problems, the sessions are over for this batch. And they are only demos!

I'd love to take a stab at it!

 

The problems with the drums will be how they were engineered, although I realize I could play around more at the EQ stage - we did two overheads, one snare and one bass drum mic through a stereo mixer. I did some panning to put the ride cymbal on the right but that could have resulted in too much being over there. It's worse on some tracks than others.

That's more than I did when I had a drumset in the basement at the last house

 

In fact, if you use Audition (what version?) I could send you the sessions but they run to an awful lot of Mb, and I don't know if you have everything I used (I employed Izotope plugin for the mastering stuff).

I have 1.5 & 2.0 installed. I love voxengo plugins, nice & transparent. The elephant limiter is a helluva lot better than Audition's.

 

Thanks a lot for listening and taking the time to give such in-depth feedback! I'm sorry you don't like the singer, I got a lot of that off TTLG too, and I don't really know what to do because apart from being one of the best members of the band, I also rather like his voice and it just makes me think there's something I'm missing???

Maybe it's not his voice but how it's mixed.

 

Okay, now this next post . . .

 

Oh I am very aware of it, I don't pretend it's a good effort at all in that regard. I know all about the loudness wars (people are bored to tears of me railing against modern records) and it may seem an odd choice, but considering these are demos, I chose a sort of mid-ground - you should try listening to a Killers album - seriously, it's ridiculous if you look at the waveform what they do.

VH's 1984 remastered. UGH! Severe clippage. No wonder why I didn't listen to it very much.

 

The environment is absolutely awful, a combination of headphones and a simple consumer hi fi system, on this pc I have surround sound speakers but it's still not great really.

Ouch. It shows . . .

 

What I really need to do at some point is head over to my dad's and use his powered monitors (he's a part time voiceover artist and has a much better set up). However, it's never going to be as good as a professional thing.

 

It doesn't help that everything was recorded in a room with no acoustic treatment whatsoever.

If you can afford it (it's not expensive) try to make some broadband absorbers. Essentially they're wood frames with Owens-Corning 703/705 fiberglass with some kind of acoustically transparent material covering those. I couldn't find any rigid fiberglass so I bought Sound Choice fiberboard from Home Depot:

http://www.temple.com/fiberboard/fbsound.html Those have a layer of acoustic foam with fabric covering those. I should post some pics sometime.

 

I can't find the tut on the broadband absorbers but just google for DIY acoustic treament.