wesp5

I figured this was only done to avoid missions breaking if they add their own stuff. Checking out the link above it doesn't seem to work with init scripts where most of the changes of the patch are. If I rename the tdm_user_addons file I get an redeclaring user_addon_init error and if I rename that, all the patch scripts are gone. So what am I doing wrong here?

How does TDM support this? I thought this was only possible using third party software or Snatcher's mod.

I have updated the patch for 2.12, here is the changelog: v2.0 04.03.2023 ---- Added names being shown on frobing bodies or items, thanks Snatcher. Resorted mission list including "A" and "The" in alphabetical order. Updated to version 2.12 and removed several fixes that are included. Moved helper options from the gameplay page to the difficulty page.

I took a quick look at the training mission and I didn't notice many changes in the first place. Some new windows on walls that didn't have them, but was something gameplay related changed? I found there are still a lot of unique items missing in the object handling section which I added in my patch for example. The main issue I have with the TDM training mission hasn't been tackled, namely that it isn't a mission at all, just a loose collection of tutorial areas. Which is fine when you want come back and re-train something, but bad if you want new players to have fun discovering TDM! Yes, the two campaign missions try to do the latter, but in other games the training/tutorial is done much better in a linear fashion (e.g. Half-Life and Opposing Force) or is even integrated in a story (Bloodlines and many others). It would probably be a lot of work, but maybe it would be possible to modify the training mission, so it represents a linear sequence in which you learn one basic principle after another while actually playing a mission that is has a story and is fun! If you really think people are going to replay it, maybe shortcuts could be added to the single areas. Right now all areas start from a central room, maybe they could be connected so that there is one way where you enter a door and go around the whole room to exit at the end? (If people agree, that the training mission should be changed, maybe we should open a new thread for this discussion.)

So is there a way to make the AI react to other AIs fighting nearby? In Bloodlines the difference is OnHearCombat and OnHearPlayer, and there is even OnHearWorld if the player uses sound as a distraction.

Regardless of team shouldn't the other AI react to audible combat nearby? The team civilians will flee I would guess...

That looks stupid. Isn't there a setting to make guards alerted if they hear combat sounds or other guards nearby are alerted? Even Bloodlines has the first option as standard that can be set for any AI and can do the other using stats!

I agree, they should at least turn into the direction they were hit from, that should be easy enough to implement. They could then start their usual search pattern.

Basically correct, but most of the TDM missions are not on an open field, but in narrow town environments. As has been said before, the bowman could have moved or hid himself. I see that a lesser problem than them not reacting to melee attacks which must come from nearby!

I would guess you would take a random swing and maybe something like this could be implemented. Like if the player hits the guard with his sword, sooner or later the guard should just hit back even if he can't see the player. I don't think we need to do anything about hitting guards from far away in the back. How should they know where the arrow came from?

Yes, that would be more consistent. Snatcher and myself have been saying this again and again, but the give-me-a-split-second-advantage-when-shouldering-bodies people won out and I doubt they'll listen to yet another one not liking it...

I believe that 3. and 4. should be easy to do, by setting some internal triggers for alert sounds and random animations depending on the alert state. I guess that 2. would mean a lot of work for little benefit as I guess if you fought one guard hard enough for him to flee all other guards nearby must be alerted anyway. As for 1. this must be handled very carefully, because while I agree with you on the stupid melee killing from dark corners, I really hate it in games when I fire a ranged weapon like the TDM bow at somebody from behind and they immediately know where I am. This should only happen if the guard is looking exactly into the direction of the player at the moment the bow is released! It's supposed to be dark.

I agree, which is the reason why I made mission sorting in my patch like this, which is also how missions are sorted elsewhere in the web.

What is this all about? To get TDM as a default into some Linux distribution?

Something like this is already part of my Unofficial Patch and I guess Snatcher's Modpack too.

Yes, there is at least one mission that needs lighted candles to be placed, but a fireplace is nearby and you have a flint too. Are there really any others were this could be critical? Also I only remember one mission where it is necessary to carry an apple to somebody and this was optional. In the case of consumables you won't eat them if you are at full health as well.

New subtitles? For what exactly?

Snatcher and myself argued for ages to make shouldering long frob, but as this was completely blocked and the issue for me at least is consistency, I now would like to have the other special actions fit to the shouldering scheme. As you said, from the new perspective of a new default, short frob should extinguish any lights and eat any food. - Bodies: short > shoulder, long > move - Lights: short > extinugish, long > move - Consumables: short > eat, long > move - Loot and items: short > take, long > multi take (this was always different to the others) This leaves all other physical items for which short frob means moving, which could also be helpful in the sense that if you short frob something and it is moved, it has no special action.

No, I remembered the old system, but I also was using my patch so I suspected at first I messed something up before I remembered that the handling of bodies and lights are so counter intuitive right now. I could easily add my own patch solution to make extinguishing lights short frob again, but I would rather see a consistent version of it in the core game! To provide some background information, I had just finished both the Cyberpunk DLC and The Outer Worlds DLCs, both of which use short-use and long-use systems too so my mindset somehow was expecting something more consistent ;).

I know and this is what I did, but wasn't the whole change about making it more intuitive for beginners? I think after shouldering was made short frob, we should go all the way and make the other special actions short frob too! I think there are only very few situations where you need to carry a light or a consumable around...

I just played the new beta mission and wondered why I couldn't extinguish moveable lights as I had already forgotten that I need to use hold-frob in 2.12. This is completely counterintuitive to shouldering bodies and there is no global information about this, so please make it so that hold-frobing takes a moveable light and short frobing extinguishes it! This would also be more consistent to the static lights. The same should be done for consumables too: short frob eat, long frob pick up...

The current indicator swaps between being compress and decompressed on the z axis at the moment. How about we make it compress and decompress on the x axis as well?

I'm sure many people don't use the frob helper. I like the idea much better that the name is displayed if the body is highlighted! Snatcher, could you possibly change your current show-name-on-frob feature into this?

Sorry, but this doesn't look at all like the TDM UI, I would prefer something on the sides like Snatcher suggested.

What do you mean by that?