Atheran

Good... Now I understand. But if anything the door handles are the thing that player really gets close to Joking aside, I have a serious question. The way people usually handle modular buildings or anything modular in that case is with a single big texturemap. As in a 2048x2048 file with door/wall/window/etc textures in it, same with the UV maps and normal maps for these things. Three big texture files (diffuse/UV/normal (can be applied to other maps as specular as well if needed)) and then having several models access those files at their respective space each. At least that's how we learned to do it in Unreal. Does DR support that? Or it needs every model to have it's own texture files (even if they are used across several models according to specific needs). Because I'm not sure that the above made any sense here's an example. 1 big texture file --- Door, window, wall, door frame, window frame, another door etc. vs 1 texture --- Door 1 texture --- Window 1 texture --- Door Frame

I won't even try to understand what you mean by patching But I get your point about the models. Question is... We want new ones? Or the ones we already have more detailed? In either case may I have a list of wanted models so I can start working on them? Or I should start exporting every window/door frame, door handle etc from DR?

I played a bit with it and all I have to say is Wow! Zbrush has some amazing tools. I am at 970 polys now and it's a decent base for a low poly model. Now I can keep on refining details to however high polycount I want and simply export them as a normal map. And with the allowance (is that even a word?) of the time you gave me for this I should give you good enough results. What'll take some time tho' is first, to learn about UVmapping in Zbrush and then learn how the DR works and it's limits to give appropriate details to the model. No need to have insane details like feathers etc when I'm limited to 512x512 normal map resolution I guess. They won't even be visible. On the other hand it's a statue so such details are supposed to be missing if it's simply sculpted on a piece of rock... As I'm still waiting for those machine schetches I bought thief pack from Steam so I now have thief gold to play and check things out for myself. And while downloading HD mod/sounds/models for it I started playing "WS: In the North". All I have to say it's excellent even if I'm still at the very begining. I just hope it's a good idea for a noob in TDM as myself or if it is extremelly hard (or hardest difficulty). We'll see I guess but I have to say if that's the kind of work you usually do grayman I'm really honoured to help with that with models. It's an inspiration to help me do my best with them. As a side note, from pictures or from videos I've seen of people playing TDM FMs I see buildings made of wood. Is that refering to the poor districts of Bridgeport? According to wiki: From playing thief games in the past or from seeing FMs from TDM I'd mostly categorise the architecture as late medieval/gothic/early victorian. In which case (last two) buildings should mostly be made of bricks with wooden support beams. In DR I can't see wooden house models but I see something that reminds me of early kind of concrete or something in the majority of the buildings. Shouldn't buildings be made of stone/bricks?

I had no problem with that one at all. I just followed the screen tips. What I cannot do for the life of me is the fighting tutorial. i kill the first guard quite easilly but I can't even kill the second one. The block key seems to randomly work ( I guess it's not and I just haven't gotten the timing right yet), and the moving mouse to set the direction of attacks is just way to hard for me (any way to change that with assigning keys for it?). Not to mention the guard countering almost every attack I make.

I have no experience at all with Blender so I can't help with anything really technical, but as it was previously said it appears to have 3 bones in that area. Can you post a picture with the bones visible? It could help people help you probably. Usually it's the animator who creates the bones. If this isn't the case here and the modeler has you could ask him if he's still around to fix it. On the other hand you could simply delete the skeleton and remake it yourself. It's a lot of work but seeing that you're the one who activelly creates animations it'd help your workflow a lot if you are familiar with the skeleton and what purpose each bone is made for. There are great programs for animations so if you are interested in that area I could suggest some. If you're set on Blender reading about Rigging and Skinning could help you solve the problem without having to know anything about IK. On the other hand you may already know all that so consider this a free bump. My animation knowledge is limited to the bare requirements to pass the exam. I was never interested in it.

I was mostly thinking of converting .ase files to .obj import them on Maya or Max edit them and then export the edited model to .ase and back into the DR. Of course changing dimensions is not allowed as it'd break existing maps and offset any textures. In any minor details I could edit the texture files as well and reimport them in DR. To my understanding without changing the file names if done correctly the mapper only need to reexport his map to have these changes take effect. On the other hand making some new more detailed tileable/modular architecture models doesn't seem a bad idea to be honest. Altho' if someone wants to upgrade his map with them he'll need to remake almost everything which is bad. It'd add variety tho'. And even make it easier for mappers to create new maps with way more variety in buildings or facades. Doors/window frames/door handles are not hard to detail. The problem is the resolution limits. I could for example make a handle or a window frame in Maya, transfer it to zbrush to add ornate carvings on it as well... But limiting the polycount to 1k for example means I'll have to transfer them ingame with textures/normal maps. With a 512x512 limit on textures I doubt any such small details will be visible. I could always try that of course but, is that 512x512 texture limit an engine limit? Or an agreement between developers/mappers so it won't eat the FPS? In case it's not an engine limit, while it's a bad idea to spam such textures across the map we could have some so the mappers could use in places they really want to be extremelly detailed.

Great! Two forum posts clears out a week of frustration!!! Thank you Now to the point. What architectural models you need worked on? We need the existing models reworked upon or new ones? We can take this to pm's instead of hijacking this thread by the way. Not sure what the silent rules are in these forums. Or take it to my thread so I have everything, I plan to work on in one place.

So basically the static models or assets or...props, however you wanna call them? from rocks and boxes to houses? Sorry for the noob questions but after many headaches with the wiki I still can't really see the difference between models and brushes in many situations and this one is one of them.

And func_stats is what exactly? For the noob here that is already thinking of modeling some architecture....

That was a fast reply But before I go into 6 digits polygons and start adding details on it hoping I can manage to transfer them to normal map... I'd like some C&C on the base shape. If you don't like it I can start over or change it now while it's still early. So how about that? It's at 20k polys at the moment and zbrush probably crashed on me for some reason Ohwell... At least I have it saved. EDIT: On a side note... Last cemester in college and I'm learning about modularity in game assets and as a personal project I'd like to work a bit on that and thought about TDM and Bridgeport. If Springheel or anyone who has it reads that I'd like a high res version of the city map because the wiki one is too small to really see anything besides the general layout. If such thing exists I'd love a copy of it so I start making parts of the city. It is a personal project so it'll probably be a couple of districts only and mostly on Unreal engine so I'm not going to make an FM or anything... But if I really like it and it gets bigger than a couple of districts and someone wants it for their FMs I'll do my best to transfer it to DR and send him the files. But it probably won't come to that. Actually no it didn't crash so I managed to get it down to 2k polys. While most of the model seems fine at 2k I have a problem with the feet. At 2k polys it's manageable but any lower I loose the claws details. I'm not sure I know how to fix that

For a quick update I just wanted to say that I sterted working on that owl statue Grayman. It's not something yet that I'm proud of or want to showcase here but if you really want I can post a quick render. While I love Zbrush the friggin' polycount goes up really, really fast I'm at 400k polys now and just have the basic shape done... I really hope the Zremesher is as good as anyone keeps saying

I'd certainly love that Melan. It'll save me time from watching Thief 1 Let's Plays in youtube Grayman, that might be above my abilities in max/maya but I'll give it a try with zbrush once I find out how to UV/bake there. I can promise I'll try but don't hold your breath on the result. I believe I can make the model in Zbrush but as we do not want 10m polys in props I'll have some or lots of work to do with trial and error. Good thing is that I'll meet with a friend next Wednesday who knows his stuff with Zbrush so he might be able to help with the converting to low poly proccess.

To Melan: Machinery is something I definitelly would love to do. I actually am already on the hunt for references of machines like that, tho' mostly from random google images or deviantart ones under "steampunk". Haven't found anything that would really fit in TDM yet tho' so if you happen to have any such references somewhere I'd really love to do it. I do vaguelly remember those from when I played it some 10 years ago but saddly I do not have the games now To Melan and Grayman: As I said to my first post I have no experience whatsoever in organic modeling and altho' statues are not organic what they're depicting is... That said I'm not saying I won't do any such stuff, but I don't really feel comfortable to as of now. If the statues you mean Melan are not depicting something organic but The Builders sign for example I'd have no problem doing them. To Grayman: Something like the following image is something I see no problem of modeling. With better textures of course and even add sculpted details on it or something. It's the organic shapes I have problem with. But for more detailed stuff, I'll need some time to learn on organic modeling. Could you be a bit more specific on what kind of statue you want?

Okay. After fiddling with it for a day or so I can't get the normal baking process to work properly. Until I manage to do so this model is on hold. I'll start working on props in my usual way again with building a lowpoly from the start and avoiding the highpoly to lowpoly step altogether. Any ideas on stuff I should work on? Maybe assets that we don't have or don't have enough variations of? EDIT: I see in the DR that some building are modular. Is modularity heavily used here? I'd love to work on that to be honest

Any news Bikerdude? I'm trying to find a way to import .ase to maya but haven't found anything. I found how to export but not how to import yet

If I make the lowpoly with simple boxes then yes... It'll be around 1k triangles. But I want to make something better than that with at least some bevels on the edges hoping it won't raise the polycount by much (it shouldn't). But my problem is that with bevels on the lowpoly mesh I get issues with baking the normal maps, and I still haven't found a way to tackle that. I'll probably end up beveling the low poly and stop trying to smooth the edges even more with normals and use the normal map for the texture details (wood for example). Only problem with that is how I'm going to add the bolts in the normal as well... And by the way the DR setup screenshot you posted helped me a lot and now I can open models normally. Thanks a ton for that. If anyone has any experience with baking normals from high poly to low poly and then adding texture details to that normals I'd really could use some insight on it. Never worked with high polys before as I onl made low poly assets from the start and then used Ndo2 to add texture details on normals. I never used highpoly to lowpoly baking in my workflow before and I'm kinda stuck right now...

Not at home right now but I'll try that when I get back. As for the model, I have finished the high poly but have some serious issues with baking it to low poly... It'll take some time probably. After I fix those problems it's mostly 1h work for me to have the low poly finishied/textured as well.

Very nice models there. I saw it in the past but couldn't find it again. Was looking at your other thread in Art Assets. Making the lowpoly and normal maps now and my head hearts As for your first point, I haven't seen any thread about that the bit I looked around. I managed to get a list of models (small one granted) when I added a path to a .pk4 folder from a fan mission but still when I hit rclick -> create model and see the list if I click on any model in there DR crashes

Thanks a ton XendroX. That really, really helps. I'll try to play with DR because for rendering them I'll probably need to rebuild the lighting anyways and screwing with missions other people made is not something I'd like to do. But I still have to figure out how to get them into the DR. When I click the "Create Model" there's a window opening (I suppose it should have a list of models in there?) but it's completelly empty (also misses a "browse" button). But I'll figure it out.. In time. I made the holes in the middle part as well so I guess I can call the high poly finished. What polycount should I target for the lowpoly? Baking the bolts and holes to the lowpoly with changing nothing else will drop it to ~4k. Is that acceptable or way to much for a prop? EDIT: Is there a reason there's no bevel to almost any model in TDM? It wouldn't make the polycount much higher than it already is and it'd remove the screaming "CG" feeling most of them have. Mainly talking about wallls/doors/boxes etc. Nothing in real life is in exact 90 degrees angles. On another note I found a plugin for maya to export in .ase format but I still haven't found a way to open .ase files inside maya. Once I do and if there's no technical restriction for bevels I could try to start beveling the existing models if that's okay with everyone. EDIT 2: Does DR support tesselation/Displacement maps? Or it's the usual way of bump/normal maps for small extruded details?

Well... Not really anything special, just a thread where I'll post the models I'm working on. As of now I started making a desk, using as a reference a desk from Thief 4. My main problem is lack of ideas so I'm working on existing concepts art or already made models, recreating them. Most of the reference images in these forums are probably down or not working for me. So any help with concept art on creating something new would be really appreciated. If someone wants a specific model for his FM and has some concept made on it I'd be happy to help (but take a look at my PS first ) EDIT: I'm unable to create anything organic yet, so if anyone asks for a specific model, I can only do statics/props I still have no idea how I can make use of the engine, so the renders will be from Maya viewport, using mental ray for now. When I finish a model I'll import and render it with Unreal engine, until I finally find out how to use DR. Here is my non-finished desk (still working on the high poly model). Haven't made any UVs yet so no textures, just a simple Lambert shader with Global Illumination. Polys are at 6k at the moment. Here is the reference model from a video in youtube. I still have some details to add (like the holes in the middle between the drawers) and maybe some sculpting to do. Then, the low poly and UVs, and then the final render. I do not really like the way it is in Thief 4 (being 100% made of copper) so I'm thinking to make the top/legs at least from wood. Any ideas on that? PS. My free time is kinda limited so I may be slow on updates, but I will continue working on models. Any C&C is highly appreciated as it's helping me improve.

Any of those models (static ones mostly) still needed? The list is from '08 and I don't see any edits on it. I may have some free time between university and work to make some models for TDM, and I'd be glad to spend it like that.

As I said, it's probably me not paying enough attention... Two things mostly. 1) The path is too narrow, which results to them following the exact same path every time (not a meter left or right than their previous patrol). That's probably up to the mapmakers but I haven't tested it yet in the engine to see how it works. 2) They move to a set point, sit there for some seconds frozen and then start walking again to the next point. I believe that this could be solved with some animations probably or by giving them a task to do, or set a small patrol in that area they stop so they move a bit around. This ends up making them feel a bit robotic in my opinnion. But again, only have experience to speak about St Lucia. Don't know if it's better in other missions, if mechanics changed since then, if it's just a mapper option or whatever. I'm probably speaking before I test enough... Look around 8:50 Maybe the guards FoV was quite low but he's standing in front of 2 dead guards not noticing anything. Granted he has his back on them but that wasn't the case when he got there on his patrol. As for myself I can't provide a video with it myself as I never kill guards. Unless it's unnavoidable. As for the .lwo export, my best hope is I'll find an .ase exporter. For some reason I can't find a .lwo one and I searched for it for a long time for another project

I agree with what you said about lockpicking. The only reason I said about the minigame was that after you do it some (lots of times) it becomes boring. 2-3 different minigames would avoid that.

Well... As I got given the rights to post, I think I should contribute a bit here. I'll probably get a bit out of the subject of this thread and instead of just posting suggestions only I may also ask a few questions. I never was a forums lover so I don't really see the reason of making multiple threads. If that's a problem a mod can poke me and I'll edit and move them around as they should be. As a completionist and a packrat the first thing I did was to download ALL missions for this. And here is the first problem I had. For some reason every once in a while the .exe crashed while I was downloading. Didn't manage to find out what caused this (if it was a specific mission or something) but as it hasn't happened again since, I guess it's not my machines fault, and probably it's something with the downloader. Another problem I had with downloading was all the time and clicks I had to spend to download all the missions. My suggestion would be to add a multi-select functionality to it with either checkboxes or a button "Download all". In buttons case tho' even if it helps some people like me, it'll be of no help to the majority of the people that want to download, say, 3-4 specific missions and not all of them. So I'd stick to the checkboxes suggestion. As for the rest, what I feel like it needs some major work or an overhaul even, is the animations. They are simply put "funny", especially when the guards are attacking you. But we need a good animator for it. Nothing I can do here to help... I haven't played much of it yet (been busy with thief 4), but I played Tears and started the "A score to settle". It seems like there are way too many "Oh hell! This guard spawned on top of me!" moments but that is probably a problem with me not paying much attention. As for the people that make the missions I'd suggest two things. First to make better paths for the guards (don't really know if it's a mapper not spending enough time to do it in a believable way, or a restriction the engine has, but it feels very unnatural), which combined with better animations would make a much more satisfying experience and provide better maps. In the "A score to settle" mission for example I spent like 30-40 mins trying to find the contact at the start, but I simply can't find him. A map noting where he is supposed to be would help a ton here (even the general area not his exact position). Animations for opening/closing doors or picking up items would be cool. I don't like watching my hands all the time lke in thief 4 (it's creepy) but picking up an item and seeing it floating is immersion-breaking. Also as like many other people have done already I'd love some better AI for the guards. Things like finding a dead body or noticing if someone's missing from a patrol or from his spot should be obvious. Shouting for help as well...I'd also like some lockpicking animation/minigame like every game has in our days. When loading a new mission even after I get the message that mission is loaded or the bar fills there's a lot of time left before I can actually play the mission. Don't know why that happens but I don't like it. As for the engine itself I'd like some atmospheric effects, like thief 4 has (probably the best thing about thief 4). And the engine also needs better documentation. I read some wiki articles on the engine but didn't help much to be honest. Now on what I can do to help... As for now not much, until I understand the engine at least. I study game development in college and I'm finishing in June. I know flash and edge (I highly doubt they can be of any use), C and Java from programing (Pascal and Basic are totally useless probably), and leaarning C++ at this cemester. I also know lots in photoshop and modeling ( I love modeling and hope I'll do it as a job eventually) so I could help with new models or textures. But first I have to find how to get Maya and Zbrush to export in .ase, and I also have to find through trial and error what polycount and texture resolution the engine can handle before there's a performance hit, unless someone can answer that for me. Also I need to understand how the engine handles the textures before I start making any. But I'll stick to props/enviroment as my organic modelling is subpar to even the lamest guard model in TDM. And now time for the major question. Following the tutorials in wiki about the engine I saw the writter making a room with brushes. Is brushes the only way for rooms/enviroment modeling? Or I can make the room/road/house/whatever in maya and import it? And a couple more questions... Does the engine support tesselation? The images from the http://forums.thedarkmod.com/topic/189-concept-art-list/ do not load for me. Is it just me or is there something I can do about it?