snatcher

I have never or almost never (don't recall) changed difficulty settings in any game and I always select and stick to "Normal" (or whatever name the game presents as the default). I consider normal = balanced or: "the best we could come up with for the best experience". I either like the experience (and therefore the game) or not, but I restrain myself from adjusting difficulty mainly because I don't trust what devs do behind curtains with, what I consider: "extra settings to please a wider audience". I have nothing against a wide array of options or settings, though. In TDM, I haven't changed any of the difficulty settings and I don't I have plans to. So far it is fine. I hope I am not missing anything, Now that I am at it, and upon close examination, I detect: "AI Vision" and "AI Hearing" must be either "Forgiving" or "Challenging", no middle ground (Normal or Default), which sends to me the message "I couldn't make up my mind, you decide". "Lockpicking": Fine, but "Average" should be either "Normal" or "Default". I don't know what "Auto" is for and the GUI doesn't want me to know. "Combat Difficulty": No "Easy" (or "Forgiving") mode? Weird. The rest is fine. Oh, and a "Reset to Defaults", at least in some areas, is missing but, I think it was reported somewhere already. Cheers!

That the existing save mechanics must not change is out of the question. Mission authors create their missions in a sandbox with specific rules, dynamics and restrictions (mods aside) and the engine must, by default, respect this sandbox faithfully. A different argument is whether a game could be improved by this or that mechanic, but we are talking TDM. Restricting saves is just one way of providing additional, OPTIONAL, challenges. But we aren't limited to saves to provide alternate - use at your own risk - experiences. In example: a checkbox to alter AI and have each actor - individually - get random vision and hearing abilities, regardless of current global settings. Would this make mission X unplayable? Probably. But it remains optional. The higher the replayability factor, the longer a game stays relevant. A layer of Mutators or Modificators built on top of everything can help in that regard.

I give you that for frobbing in TDM: insert the key and turn it press the button and release it grab the handler and open the door grab the item and put it in your pocket Although "on key press" is the more responsive always.

I would like to add to my previous comment (above) that another setting that can conflict with topic here discussed probably is the Toggle Crouch setting. I can see how a "toggle crouch" on key press comes with many constrains that must be taken into account. A different topic is whether the Toggle Crouch setting should exist at all.

Subjective or not it is a fact that the action should be triggered on key press unless: there are other constrains, or the developer purposely wants it to behave differently for some reason, or it was overlooked, or a mix of the above Just like frobbing, weapon selection, cycling objects, dropping items, toggle lantern/map, bring up objectives, clearing inventory... basically all of the one-off keyboard actions.

Hi Obsttorte! I completely agree with your serious and professional take on the matter. And I would never artificially alter my first play-through of a mission. I guess the topic is more about "replayability beyond the three levels of difficulty". Think of "Mutators", if you like; in which case, I disagree with your criticism of the modes (technical challenges aside).

Going a different route: Time-bomb mode: every now and then, at random intervals of time, you get a countdown: 3... 2... 1... if you don't save, the mission ends. This would force you to save in the most inappropriate of scenarios, otherwise you don't progress

Dear all, I know you all can contribute with hundreds of great/crazy ideas of all kind but, may I ask you stick in this topic to restricting saves in creative ways? Let's also please avoid heated discussions, chances are nothing of this will ever be implemented... Consider this a for-fun topic. I failed to follow my own rule , you can discuss whatever you like... -------------------------------------- I would personally like to have an "Options" section in the initial "Objectives" screen where I can choose special modes or settings for the mission. Thinking of "restricting saves in creative ways", here are some takes: Chronos mode: Unlimited saves but you must wait 5 minutes - from the beginning of the mission or from the last save - for the next save to be available. Lethal mode: Each time you save you hear a painful sound and health decreases by 1/5, to the point where you can die from saving. Health potions become a necessity. Treasure mode: Saving is enabled as soon as you pick up a piece of loot. If you use your save, saving gets disabled and you must pick up more loot to save again. Get ready to backtrack a lot! Ironman mode: You have a single save available throughout the whole mission. Will you use it? You get the idea... can you think of other creative / challenging / fun modes? Additional threads: Wikis: https://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=What's_new_in_TDM_2.03 https://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=Altering_the_savegame_behaviour_of_TDM

I have been storming through the level and I am getting good at it. I have learned I must approach all doors in the same way and I only get stuck from time to time when a door opens towards me. WELL DONE, Obsttorte! I am extremely satisfied with your prototype. I would definitively remove the ability to quickly close doors behind. The player is quite powerful already with his upgraded abilities. Doors close normal and if you want to close that door, well, you know the risks. Did I detect a kind of a bug where doors close extremely fast? As if something doesn't complete, a state doesn't change and speed doubles exponentially? Last, you were right from the very beginning: we aren't "slamming doors open" and we don't require fancy quick-door sounds. It all feels very natural already. I leave to you whether AI gets alerted or not in a different way... between my foot steps and all light I go through when running, AI detects me pretty fast already.

I found a very good testbed for Obsttorte's fastdoor patch: b1k3rdude's excellent Alberic's curse. If you haven't played this mission yet do not spoil it! It's a very good mission so make sure to play it first the way intended. I personally like this mission a lot and recommend it.

I hear you! Personally, fleeing as an option would be very attractive as long as I know the game allows me to pull it off. Otherwise I am not sure I will rather opt for the proven strategy: align for landing, stop running in front of the door, adjust position, open it. Thanks for your tolerance in your responses. It's a nice debate.

The suggestion to have toggle crouch on key press instead of on key release is totally legit since it would feel more responsive. I think trouble - for the original devs - begun when it was decided that the sliding down mechanic should also work while pressing toggle crouch alone. I think the simplest solution is to make the sliding down mechanic work only if the up or down movement keys are currently pressed.

@Daft Mugi, excuse my ignorance but how do I use this *.diff file of yours?

Hi, I haven't followed this thread but I will see what the debate is about and provide some feedback. For what is worth, I don't recall any issues with the current toggle crouch but then, I probably got used to the existing functionality and forgot if it felt right or not.

Blinking arrow indicators in the middle of nearby doors indicating which way a door opens (up arrow: forward; down arrow: backwards) would be perfect for this dynamic to work organically. But get ready for a revolt in the boards

Oh, and I haven't gotten started with closing doors. I just can't think of everything right now. The initial feeling is what counts. Does it feel right? Brain adjustments and muscle memory will soon kick in and I will get used to the mechanic and its shortcomings. Of course, impressions can differ from player to player.

Thank you very much ! Initial tests running like crazy on a random map... opening doors that slide in the direction you are going is absolutely satisfying. Stumbling upon doors that slide towards you is getting frustrating mainly because the door opens and my area of movement gets reduced. Lessons learned: let's re-plan and try approaching doors from the opposite angle the door should open (I must think this way for all doors now) my brain cannot parse everything: where I come from, where I am going, what's ahead, what's behind (AI chasing sounds), how do I approach that next door. I would really love to test a version in which if the door opens in the opposite direction I get a "uh" sound and the door does not open.

Thank you very much but:

@Obsttorte, Can we somehow test your prototype in any map or is it linked to the demo map? I would like to test the current offering under different scenarios.

Very professional demonstration, Obsttorte. Thank you very much! Here is some food for thought for you: 1) Door opening in the same direction not only looked great in the video but it plays great! As Wellingtoncrab puts it: spot on! A keeper! 2) I admit I was reluctant about having the ability to close doors behind but having played with your demo I must say you made it work pretty well. You had a vision I didn't and you proved it works. Regardless, I am not that convinced we want it. If you give players the ability to quickly close doors behind, then players will quickly learn that AI can (and will) get blocked by the very first door. Effective? Yes. Engaging? Hmm. For this new ability to be engaging AI should also have the ability to slam doors open so it gives players just a little advantage towards success. On the contrary, if players know they cannot close doors behind unless they risk a difficult move then the chase goes on, making it for a lasting, more engaging experience, imho. 3) Doors opening in the opposite direction come with the problems we already anticipated. Do we agree the vast majority of players will use these new features to run away from (already alerted) AI? Then that's our game dynamic. This isn't then about adding new abilities, it is about making this new game dynamic an engaging experience. For a thrilling experience to work players must trust your game dynamics and as a developer, you want players to avoid punishment at all costs. Let's go for that door! s**t, I am stuck. Carry on, let's go for that one, coool it opened my way. Run, there, another one, s**t I am stuck. It is impossible to tell if a door will open right or not and chances are a thrilling run away will soon turn into a nightmare simply because players cannot control the new dynamic and they get constantly punished. If the game dynamic doesn't work, players will discard your offer and find other uses for the abilities. Happy to discuss further.

I am trying to help and right now I am in mode: "what's the absolute minimum we (you) need to have something that can be considered full". On your question, you are fleeing in this direction and go for this door. What's the optimal outcome...? ...to prevent the inevitable and keep this new dynamic engaging? Because, perhaps, on a second thought you'd rather pass and keep going straight.

Opening a door towards you will not work. At least, organically. You can clearly foresee the problems if you try in-game now. For it to work you must be able to frob it 3, 4, 5 meters ahead of time. Or the door must open in a nano second. Or the door must become transparent to the player. Otherwise you will get stuck. Bottom-line is that it requires an unrealistic gimmick of some kind. On the contrary, quickly opening doors when doors open in the direction you are going should be pretty easy to implement. the only gimmick, which is realistic, is that the door opens faster not to get you stuck. I think all we need as a first version of the prototype is: You are running, the door isn't locked and it opens in the right direction: open the door faster You are running, the door isn't locked and it opens in the opposite direction: Don't open the door! whisper a "damn it" instead (let me decide what to do).

I don't see any practical use of quickly opening doors other than to allow for a dynamic and exciting run away, chase or pursuit. And in these cases it makes sense that some kind of mess is left behind. Therefore I am not sure doors should close automatically considering: 1. The fact that the door remains open is the natural outcome mainly because the player didn't trigger any action in any other direction. Any different and it will become a game mechanic that players must learn and get used to. 2. Following AI could get stuck by the very first door breaking a dynamic chase too soon

(Always while running) If a door opens in the opposite direction, instead of opining the door the same we could hear a "uh" sound. Not sure if I want that door opening given the case.

Good point. So it would only work if the door opens in the direction you are running, otherwise: wrong way, mate. Simple, and it prevents other issues. I like it. Fair enough. If anyone is behind that door, or opening the door: wrong way, mate.