oDDity

Can you upload that pk4 somewhere. I seem to have lost it, and its also on Doom CD 3 which I can't find. It's only a small one with a few text files in it, right?

I'd give it a go, but since updating SVN I get this error on starting Doom C:\doom3\base\game00.pk4 (2 files) game DLL: 0x0 in pak: 0x0 Addon pk4s: file system initialized. -------------------------------------- Unknown command 'vid_restart' idRenderSystem::Shutdown() Shutting down OpenGL subsystem ...shutting down QGL Couldn't load default.cfg

You deliberately ignored the central point that there are no games that children are not interested in, while there are many movies, books, plays and music that kids wouldn't want to have anything to do with. What's childish about all those kewl war and shooter games? Come on, stop playing the dumbass, that's what kids do, they play cops and robbers and soldiering, running about pretending to shoot each other from the age of 5, putting it in computer game format makes it even more enticing for them. They are interested in those games in the same way they are interested in alien movies, anything to do with fantasy and kicking ass, smashing things, in short the sorts of things they're not allowed to do in real life. All kids what to do adult things, and putting those things in the fomat of a game makes an irresistible opportunity for children. The game format, anything in a game format, is automatically appealing to children, just like anything with a toffee coating is appealing to them.

Say 'people with a childish mindset' then. It doesn't alter the point. You cannot compare movies to games of course, since games are all pitched at a very simplistic lowbrow level, at least a fair selection of movies display intelligent design. They are very different, movies and games, the possibilities and limitations of the mediums are different and their aims are different, so analogies between them are always very weak. Perhaps if you give me some examples of games that were clearly made for adults, with no attempt being made to appeal to children, and an end result which children would not be interested in. There are certainly plenty of movies which fit this criteria, but no games, and therefore games are always at least a dichotomy of appeal between the childish and the adult (not mature, just adult) mind. Certainly, applying an 18 certificate to a game in no way means it's intended for an adult audience, since the gamemakers themselves do not apply these age limits, and you know as well as I do that as many kids play 18 games as adults do, and probably more. My nephews have at least four 18 certificate games and they are 9-12, as do all their friends. Applying 18 certificates to games is nothing but an official joke. It's like applying an 18 certificate to a big bag of sweets.

Lol! The entire games industry is an unnecessary money grab. I think the publishers of the guitar hero series made something ridiculous like half a billion dollars from it.

The only reason I mentioned it is because you were clearly trying to justify it to yourself. It's clear from this that you are not comfortable being a man approaching 40 who still plays children's games, and therefore you try to justify it by claiming it is 'useful' in some way. I won't have that. Either do it and fully admit it for the pointless crap that it is, or do something else that does have real meaning - just don't live a lie.

I was just pointing out the amusing spectacle of watching people, both doing an activity which is a puerile waste of time, calling each other names because they like or don't like a particular genre with which to waste their time on. The idea that people even take their mindless fun seriously and are prepared to argue over it.

I can guarantee that none of the famous sports stars you know of learned any of their skills from playing computer games. The bottom line is that games are just mindless fun, but you try to justify it by thinking up ways that it might also be useful. It isn't.

You wouldn't be better off practising with a real guitar?

When it comes down to it, playing any game is puerile and a waste of time.

HL2 is good in your opinion. Not everyone likes the same kind of game, and not many people liked the Thief 1/2 type of game, even if they are all obsessed nutcases. I'm sure there are lots of people who love all the sorts of games that I hate. There is no way they are going to make a T1/2 game for ps3 or xbox360 owners, and there's no point even discussing it. It'll go even further down the consolisation route than TDS did.

The phrase 'money doesn't buy you happiness' is true (unless what makes you happy is having lots of money and possessions of course) Certainly none of that matters to me, I just want to be a great artist, so I'm not sure how the optimism/pessimism thing works there, because my goal is all about skill, talent, observation and hard work, not about how happy I'm feeling. I don't see how being more optimistic and happy is going to make me a better artist. It's just the opposite with artists and musicians. So yes, if your goals in life are totally vacuous and simplistic, and no more complex than an animal, then being more optimistic will be better for you.

That all depends what you mean by 'success'. In this vacuous world, and certainly in that context, 'success' means nothing but 'how much money and possessions have you managed to hoard before you die'.

What good is a demo anyway, since you can't actually use it for production. Either you're going to buy Lightwave, or you're going to download a warez copy to use like everyone else who works on mods, so just go ahead.

That's your neurosis. Dont try to foist it on to me as well. I don't spend my days obsessed with whether other people 'like' me. It's your life, don't worry about them. When you're dead, they'll all just carry on like nothing happened, so don't waste your life pandering to them.

Aren't there any cheap airlines in Oz yet? There are lots in the UK. You can get a return flight to SF for about £400.

Well no, you can't say 'that's his problem'. It's also his music, and his wishes have to be respected in the matter. We can't ask him, but I doubt he'd be happy having it used in such a trivial and frivolous way, as background ambience for a kids game. I love the way you give yourself the right to use his music in whatever nefarious way you want, just because he's dead and can't say anything about it.

Heheh, well why are you doing it then. I'll tell you why, because you DO like it, and can't resist. There's no point in even writing a reply, because it means I've won this point. You obviously enjoy pointless bickering for it's own sake, as does everyone else who does it. Ok you don't like it when people blatantly admit they're only arguing for the sake of it, you like to pretend that it's a serious discussion and that your input has some importance.

There's no point being reasonable in an argument, because then it's no fun. We're not here to set the world straight, it's just a small mod forum, we're just here to argue about it.

Yes, I do consider most things to be puerile, and therefore depise them. Modern Western culture IS completely puerile and vacuous, that's just a simple fact.

What it means is that most people wander through life not seeing anything past the end of their own nose, and even if they do accidentally glimpse something unpleasant, they ignore and forget it. Doing that makes you happy. However, in that case you may as well just be a cat or a dog.

Gildoran - computer generated classical music? *faints* See, that's the problem with you guys, you don't even listen to the music anyway, like I say, it's just generic background noise while you concentrate on killing mudcrabs. In which case, I'd much prefer you use computer generated noise, than music that some great composer has poured his heart and soul into.

Tell me exactly how listening to Mahler while playing oblivion either makes Mahler sound better or makes the gameplay better. The first thing I do in any game is turn the music off. It makes no sense to have music playing in a gameworld. It's just a gimmick game developers thieved from movies, however, it's not the same thing, since the music in movies can be made specifically for each scene, even down to a second for second relationship. Music in games is just generic, repetitive noise.

Are you guys mental? If you want to listen to music, then listen to it, but don't put it on as background noise while you're playing a game. It's an insult to Mahler, and he'd despise you for it.

What the fuck is the point in making such a shitty old game in the Doom engine. No doubt the next mod we'll see is that tennis game from the late 70's. Hard to believe there are so any wankers out there who genuinely can't think of anything better to do with their time.