Can This Be Done?

[obscurus]

I have mainly made maps for Unreal engine games, and one of the features that Unreal engines make easy is having maps with multiple paths to other maps. As Doom 3 is quite new to me, what I want to know is, how easy is this to do with D3/DarkMod? Let me illustrate by way of example: say I want to have a level that has three alternative paths out of the level, leading to three utterly different maps, with branching paths, which might connect up again later in the game. Ideally, the player should be able to go back and forward between levels, much like the City section in TDS or much of Deus Ex. In Unreal engine, this works using teleporters placed at the transition points of all the levels, and for some games, a somewhat complicated system for keeping track of what happens in all the connected levels so they aren't reset each time you enter them.

 

How would you do this in the DarkMod, assuming the D3 engine permits it? The reason I ask is that I want to build a whole bunhc of interconnected levels as part of a highly non-linear game, with multiple alternate endings, and multiple ways of progressing through the game, and I'd like to know if I'll be able to do it (I've been working out this game on paper for ages now, hope the time is getting near that I'll have an engine capable of doing what I need).

[god_is_my_goldfish]

I don't know exactly how this is done, but the d3 engine definetly permits this.

[Domarius]

The term they used for this in Hexen was "hubs". You could travel to any level within a hub, but once a hub was completed, you moved onto the next, in a linear fashion.

 

It's no different than loading zones really.

[obscurus]

So it can be done then? Will DarkMod suport this? I guess I want a combination of Hubs and Loading zones. Do you have a rough idea of how large a level can be in terms of game world units (I am NOT talking about poly counts here)? How big is the player in terms of the maximum dimensions of the map?

 

I want to be able to make very, very large city type maps, and I would prefer to keep loading times down, but still not have too many loading zones. The city in TDS was like a little village, I want to make something at least 4 times the size of the city sections in T2, with non-linear gameplay, with lots of little stories rather than one big one like T1/2/3. not so much individual missions, more giving the player the choice of what to rob, and can rob places repeatedly (and each time things change as you would expect for a place that has been burglarised a few times...), until the owner runs out of cash and abandons the joint...

 

Yes, I know this will take me forever to map :lol:

[Renzatic]

I think the largest map someone has been able to compile was about 5 square miles or so. In Doom Units that's like...uh...alot.

 

You have to think about how feisable it is to do a map like that, though. While the engine could support one that's 4 times the size of a T2 city section, you'd have to have massive amounts of ram to even begin to something that size. Unless you want a mission no one can enjoy for another 5 years or so, I'd design it in smaller chunks.

[Domarius]

Well we would implement load zones, and you would implement when to transport to what level with the objectives system, thereby creating your own hubs.

 

I just found our thread where we discussed load zones, realised it hadn't been documented, and documented it. So at the moment we plan to support load zones.

 

Unless you want a mission no one can enjoy for another 5 years or so, I'd design it in smaller chunks.

That's what load zones are for.

Edited June 6, 2005 by Domarius

[obscurus]

Two way load zones? So if you go to one map, you can return to the previous one and everything you had changed in that map remained changed? I hope what I am asking here is clear...

[obscurus]

I think the largest map someone has been able to compile was about 5 square miles or so. In Doom Units that's like...uh...alot.

 

You have to think about how feisable it is to do a map like that, though. While the engine could support one that's 4 times the size of a T2 city section, you'd have to have massive amounts of ram to even begin to something that size. Unless you want a mission no one can enjoy for another 5 years or so, I'd design it in smaller chunks.

I figure by the time I finish, computers with 2 - 4 GB of ram will be commonplace... It probably isn't feasible to build as one single map, which is why I am interested in loading zones and hubs...

[Domarius]

I'm talking about load zones the way you understand them from Thief 3.

 

Except of course you won't HAVE to structure your level with ridiculously small areas seperated by load zones, because you will be desiging for PC, not X-Box.

[FishFace]

Also on feasibility, remember the amount of time it will take to get from one end of the map to the next... As has been discussed, most people don't like taking mile-hikes ingame. On the other hand, I'm assuming you want have to sneak across town as in TDS, so I'm sure it can safely be made huge compared to that.

[obscurus]

Well, I was thinking along the lines of something where the player can safely walk the streets throughout the game, as long as they don't get caught doing anything naughty and unlawful, although guards will be suspicous of your appearance, and if you stay in their view too long, they will come and check you out. But as soon as the player strays off the streets and onto the rooftops, into buildings etc, they are fair game... And I am planning to have levels where there are no, or very few, fake doors - every door in the game can be opened, but you have to find keys for a lot of them, coz the lockpicks won't work on all of them. And load zones would help by letting me finish one section of the city at a time, so people can see what I'm up to, and give me feedback etc before I start working on other parts of the city. The aim is that you will be able to trek for miles across the city, but it will be worthwhile because you can indulge in thiefy action just about anywhere, and you wont be forced to start a mission at one end of the city and then go back to the other when you have finished.

 

 

I might find that I have to scale down the size of the map(s) in favour of detail though, so it might end up being smaller than I want, we will see.... Detail always wins out for me over size...

Edited June 7, 2005 by obscurus

[sparhawk]

Sounds like a VERY amibtious project.

[obscurus]

Yeah, no kidding... Story of my life, too much ambition, not enough time. But I'll give it a go anyway

[AtariThief]

Story of my life, too much ambition, not enough time.

 

Yea that sounds about right for everyone.