Getting Caught Up

[oDDity]

I'm not going to give up making charcaters, I'll just alternate between making my level and some characters so I do't get bored.

As I say, I'll be making lots of startic mehses for my level as I go along, so no time is wasted.

I think we all should have a map going as a side project Fpr one thing it gives you the crucial perspective of a mapper, and tis project is aimed enitely at mapers.

Also, imagine if we had 15 completed maps to release along with the toolset)

THat's basically a full game.

 

As for textiure sizes, I think we should keep most of them at 1024 (withi reason, there are obviosu times where a 512 will suffice) This 512 nonsense is stupid. Even UT2003 had almost all 1024 textures. As I say, the vast majorty of our textures only need a diffuse and a norma - no spec and no height.

If we make the diffuse 1024, and the normal 512, then the increase in quality far outstrips the lousey little 512 of extra rexture space we use.

Of course, using detail maps really helps as well.

[sparhawk]

I doubt that I can do any map, that anybody else would like to look at. I certainly will give it a try, but I don't know if I'm as persistent there, as with coding.

[New Horizon]

Well, the 512 cap on textures size is there to keep things from ballooning out of control. I fully agree that a 1024 texture looks stunning but those huge textures sure do add up at 3 to 4 megs each. We could perhaps get away with making surface textures...like walls, ceilings and floors that size but everything else should follow the guidelines.

[SneaksieDave]

It's still possible to have separate, different resolution texture libraries (as in, just a matter of replacing the textures - material files don't have to change, right?). The default one, the CVS one, is the lower res, and if someone wants, they can separately download the high res one.

[sparhawk]

And how exactly do we sync them if they are not in CVS? I don't really like the idea of having two independent repositories. It's hard enough to keep track what we have, as it is, but creating this kind of sideproject will make it even worse.

[New Horizon]

And how exactly do we sync them if they are not in CVS? I don't really like the idea of having two independent repositories. It's hard enough to keep track what we have, as it is, but creating this kind of sideproject will make it even worse.

 

Agreed.

 

I'll keep an eye on the texture situation as time goes on. As I was saying, we can likely get away with allowing a few of the diffuse surface textures to be larger.

[SneaksieDave]

No, the lower res, standard CVS one (as now), and the separate one - for FTP or where ever possible.

 

Edit: When the textures are made, and scaled down for the CVS, simply leave the other ones in existence. Not a complicated matter I'm talking about.

[New Horizon]

No, the lower res, standard CVS one (as now), and the separate one - for FTP or where ever possible.

 

Edit: When the textures are made, and scaled down for the CVS, simply leave the other ones in existence. Not a complicated matter I'm talking about.

 

I'll take care of organizing it. Once I have them, I'll create and maintain an installer that we can release at a later date with these textures. Best to start work on it now, rather than later.

[SneaksieDave]

I just don't get it sometimes, it just seems like argument for the hell of it.

 

-A texture is created.

-I assume that it is of higher res before it's CVS'd.

-Bump the res to the right level for CVS, and keep the original.

-Original stays for optional download at a separate location, and CVS is as it always was and would have been anyway.

 

Every frickin thing needs to be debated and picked apart.

 

Edit: NH: cool

[New Horizon]

I just don't get it sometimes, it just seems like argument for the hell of it.

 

-A texture is created.

-I assume that it is of higher res before it's CVS'd.

-Bump the res to the right level for CVS, and keep the original.

-Original stays for optional download at a separate location, and CVS is as it always was and would have been anyway.

 

Every frickin thing needs to be debated and picked apart.

 

Edit: NH: cool

 

No need for that. I'll maintain them manually and then bump the installer source files up to the FTP. Should only take me half an hour to create the installer.

[SneaksieDave]

I gotta remember to stop making suggestions. The insta-pouncing gets to me quicker than most, it seems. It's just so damn frustrating to try and make a simple suggestion and then get rapid fire shot down, again, and again, and again.

[New Horizon]

I gotta remember to stop making suggestions. The insta-pouncing gets to me quicker than most, it seems. It's just so damn frustrating to try and make a simple suggestion and then get rapid fire shot down, again, and again, and again.

 

Don't let it get to you man. Everything feels much more harsh than it actually is, over the internet. The installer will be a piece of cake and it keeps CVS traffic lower.

 

I suggest that people uploading textures just upload the hi-res stuff and I'll take care of the dirty work of backing them up for the hi-res package, or they can upload the low res stuff to CVS and then put the hi-res counterpart on the FTP for me. I still have backups of pretty much everything that was hi-res at one point....over 300 megs worth of textures. I can imagine that when I add all the latest stuff...it will blow up very quickly.

[sparhawk]

I just don't get it sometimes, it just seems like argument for the hell of it.

 

-A texture is created.

-I assume that it is of higher res before it's CVS'd.

-Bump the res to the right level for CVS, and keep the original.

-Original stays for optional download at a separate location, and CVS is as it always was and would have been anyway.

 

If something is NOT on CS, then it it is the same as if it doesn't exist at all. If different versions are maintained by multiple people which one is the authorative one? If you can't see what CVS is for then I can't help you, but keeping your own little version and the next guy also keeps his own little version and so on, doesn't hurt. No. Actually why do we use CVS at all? We could just as well keep our code the same way. Every code gets a copy and maintains his version on his machine and every now and then we can update it to FTP. Much less hassle then using this CVS thingy and live would be much easier.

[sparhawk]

I gotta remember to stop making suggestions. The insta-pouncing gets to me quicker than most, it seems. It's just so damn frustrating to try and make a simple suggestion and then get rapid fire shot down, again, and again, and again.

 

I can't help you if you take everything personally. Don't know where I shopt you down, because I was just mentioning that it is NOT a good idea to keep your private little world of the mod to yourself.

[New Horizon]

If something is NOT on CS, then it it is the same as if it doesn't exist at all. If different versions are maintained by multiple people which one is the authorative one? If you can't see what CVS is for then I can't help you, but keeping your own little version and the next guy also keeps his own little version and so on, doesn't hurt. No. Actually why do we use CVS at all? We could just as well keep our code the same way. Every code gets a copy and maintains his version on his machine and every now and then we can update it to FTP. Much less hassle then using this CVS thingy and live would be much easier.

 

Spar, you're not understanding what he's saying at all. Where are you getting this notion of not using CVS? I don't blame him for being frustrated as hell. If you're not 100% certain of what someone means, then ask them to clarify. There is no need for such silly misunderstandings.

 

I'll explain what he's talking about. Sneaksie is suggesting that CVS be used to hold a hi-res AND low res version of the textures.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but we currently have two repositories on CVS.

 

1. Darkmod - for the compiled mod

2. Darkmod_src - for the uncompiled source.

 

Sneakises suggestion would mean creating a 'Darkmod_hires', where only the 'textures' folder is checked in...nothing else. When creating their textures, people drop the 'original' hi-res versions into their Darkmod_hires directory. Then they put the low res versions in the actual 'Darkmod' directory.

 

They commit the hires to Darkmod_hires and then commit the low res to Darkmod.

 

Nothing more complicated than that. I don't know where in the world you're getting that he's talking about NOT using CVS. That isn't what he said at all.

 

At any rate. I think doing that would just stuff up CVS, so that's why I will maintain the texture upgrade manually. People can just upload their hires stuff to the main mod folder and I will replace them with the low res stuff and maintain the hi-res package on the FTP.

[New Horizon]

To further clarify...

 

 

 

This is how he was talking about keeping a 'hi-res' CVS copy. GAH!!!

[SneaksieDave]

Choice 1: Let's all just forget I said anything.

 

Choice 2: Comprehension:

 

A texture is created. It is of a nice high resolution (assumption!) because it's not usual for a person to work in low res and then go the other way. So, if a high resolution version exists, one that is bumped down for use in CVS, then so far, NOTHING HAS CHANGED. I'm not talking about changing dick with regard to the CVS. I'm saying, "hey, if people want the high res ones, the originals, why not put them somewhere for download?" Is that so hard to understand? The frustration, or taking it personally, is born of constantly being told that I'M not reading or I'M not getting stuff, when the reality is the other way around.

 

The suggestion was ONLY to keep the fricken high res version somewhere in a file if people want it. NH's suggestion about a CVS fork is fine too, but I wasn't even suggesting that much complexity.

 

Why this is so complex, I'll never know.

 

Let's just go with choice 1. Honestly. If this much effort goes into attacking a trivial suggestion, then something is really messed up.

[New Horizon]

Choice 1: Let's all just forget I said anything.

 

Choice 2: Comprehension:

 

A texture is created. It is of a nice high resolution (assumption!) because it's not usual for a person to work in low res and then go the other way. So, if a high resolution version exists, one that is bumped down for use in CVS, then so far, NOTHING HAS CHANGED. I'm not talking about changing dick with regard to the CVS. I'm saying, "hey, if people want the high res ones, the originals, why not put them somewhere for download?" Is that so hard to understand? The frustration, or taking it personally, is born of constantly being told that I'M not reading or I'M not getting stuff, when the reality is the other way around.

 

The suggestion was ONLY to keep the fricken high res version somewhere in a file if people want it. NH's suggestion about a CVS fork is fine too, but I wasn't even suggesting that much complexity.

 

Why this is so complex, I'll never know.

 

Let's just go with choice 1.

 

Ahhh, so it wasn't even that complex. Well, I'll still create the installer package. This way, it will be ready for simultaneous release with the mod. It's going to be one hell of a big installer though.

[Fingernail]

HANG ON

 

What's this I hear???? Talk of loads of people making maps to bulk up the textures and static meshes???

 

How about.....we tie them all together with some sort of loose storyline!!!!!!

 

 

OH WAIT THAT'S JUST THE CAMPAIGN IDEA ALL OVER AGAIN HOW SILLY OF ME

 

Seriously though that was my idea with the campaign, but if we're all going to make individual self indulgent mini projects then that's alright too I guess.

[New Horizon]

HANG ON

 

What's this I hear???? Talk of loads of people making maps to bulk up the textures and static meshes???

 

How about.....we tie them all together with some sort of loose storyline!!!!!!

OH WAIT THAT'S JUST THE CAMPAIGN IDEA ALL OVER AGAIN HOW SILLY OF ME

 

Seriously though that was my idea with the campaign, but if we're all going to make individual self indulgent mini projects then that's alright too I guess.

 

Great, something else to argue over.

 

Lets stick to the topic at hand. Textures. I will handle them in a logical and efficient manner.

[Fingernail]

if we can't argue WHAT SORT OF A TEAM ARE WE?

[sparhawk]

Sneaksie is suggesting that CVS be used to hold a hi-res AND low res version of the textures.

 

That was not what he suggested imo.

 

Sneakises suggestion would mean creating a 'Darkmod_hires', where only the 'textures' folder is checked in...nothing else. When creating their textures, people drop the 'original' hi-res versions into their Darkmod_hires directory. Then they put the low res versions in the actual 'Darkmod' directory.

 

They commit the hires to Darkmod_hires and then commit the low res to Darkmod.

 

We already discussed this some time ago, but it seems that this was not really appreciated.

 

At any rate. I think doing that would just stuff up CVS, so that's why I will maintain the texture upgrade manually. People can just upload their hires stuff to the main mod folder and I will replace them with the low res stuff and maintain the hi-res package on the FTP.

 

I don't think it would stuff up CVS, because you don't have to download the hires version. Putting it in CVS would have the advantage that I could implement a script that makes sure that the hires version matches the normal one and alos that they are in sync with each other.

[oDDity]

We could never agree on the campaign, so it's best just to wank our own dicks, rather than each others. We'll get a lot more done that way, rasther than wasting time arguing about it.

I'm sure we'll be able to tie them together with a plot.

My level basically consists of Farrell hearing about a huge shipment of water opals that have arrivded at the docks, and are being stored in the various safes aound the warehouses until they can be moved to banks the next morning.

MEanwhile a ship full of pirates have picked that night to land at the dock, storm the warehouses, and kill all the guards. They're in the process of robbing the place clean during your mission.

OF course, for the purpose of any overarching plot we come up with, Farrell could be looking for same rare artifacts in the warehouses, or the pirates could have been sent by some mysterious boss character, etc, the exact details dont matter.

It's a malliable type of level that could fit into any plot somewhere.

[New Horizon]

Putting it in CVS would have the advantage that I could implement a script that makes sure that the hires version matches the normal one and alos that they are in sync with each other.

 

Why bother depending on technology when I can do it just as easily in a few minutes? No worries, it's actually much easier for me to maintain this manually, I just have to keep a mirrored copy of the textures directory. I've been doing it for months now anyway to stay ahead of the game. I just haven't started the preliminary work on the installer.

[sparhawk]

The only real issue I see with this approach is, that it is easy to forget to upload a hires texture. If you upload the lowres to CVS, then you are already doing the CVS thing, and it is easy to remember to upload the hires version right after. IMO it's easier to forget this when you have to upload it to a totally different location with a different application.

 

That's not meant as need to debate.