Massive Online World

[Cyberwolf]

A few years ago, a project called Archaean was in the planning stages, there was a group that got assembled from around the 'net, much like this project...the aim was to create a massive online world. The concept of the MOW was a lot different than just creating a MMORPG. The project died I guess, but there are a few scraps of it here and there around the 'net, one is an interview with the project lead here.

 

Their idea was to create a fully 3d, fully deformable and buildable world with a fantasy setting, so that it would resemble rpg's but basically allow everyone to do whatever they pleased. This kind of concept has been sort of implemented in the text based rpg Cantr, but the limitations of that system are obvious and frustrating. Several things that they did do that I thought was neat was that they didn't place any predefined value on any of the items or raw materials in the game. It became up to players to establish an economy and society based on what they eventually did with those raw materials. They have some sort of strange invention system that I don't quite understand but it has serious limitations.

 

Imagine the kind of design that would have to go into creating even a small plot of ground (say 50 square feet), that was fully alterable. It would have to be constructed entirely of near particle-sized 3d objects, each with their own definitions as to what 'material' they are, what their properties are, how they are affected by the physics calculations, etc.

 

To be able to dig in it, you'd have to have layer upon layer of dirt material, not just a flat, razor thin poly for an area of grass or dirt. Players and characters would also have to be constructed from world materials, and wouldn't be able to be separate 3d models, if interaction with the world would be what it would need to be.

 

Anyway it's just fun to think about...does anyone think this will ever be possible (or at least mostly possible) in the near future? From a programming perspective, I know creating some sort of engine like this would be absolutely unimaginably hard. Also it would put an enormous strain on bandwidth. Eh I like to dream big though...

[oDDity]

Yes, of course it will be possible, but I don't think it makes any sense.

A game where you can do anything would be shit, because no one wants to do boring things, things that make the would tick in real life, everyone wants to do exciting things in the game, so you just end up with a bunch of yobs galavanting about with no restrctions on what happens.

It would be a total mess.

Games have to have rules and resrtictions, they are what define a game from random pressing of keys and mouseclicks.

[Cyberwolf]

Are you really sure about that though? I think a lot of the appeal with games is the ability to virtually 'do' things that at least resemble how things happen in real life. Sure there are abstract concepts like the puzzle game genre, but for the most part, we have games that, to some degree or another, strive to achieve "realism." I think the appeal for something like this lies in the same place that it does in other games: Your actions don't produce real world consequences.

 

It's almost laughable that you say that no-one wants to do boring things. If that's true, how on earth do you justify the popularity of games like dungeon siege, or really (as far as I'm concerned, don't mean to bash the game) online games like WoW? Your actions in these types of games are so repetitive, but for millions of people there is a driving force, a definite reason to keep forking out the monthly fee...and I'd be surprised if that reason was the repetition of killing monsters.

[oDDity]

Repetive isn't the same as boring. Even an exciting task becomes boring if you have to repeat it often enough. A boring task is boring from the start.

The people who play these games are bored, but they're also addicted.

Making these games like real life is stupid. Real life is boring 95% of the time for most people.

Most people are locked into daily routines just as repetitive as killing gnolls in a mmorpg.

[Vadrosaul]

Making these games like real life is stupid. Real life is boring 95% of the time for most people.

Most people are locked into daily routines just as repetitive as killing gnolls in a mmorpg.

Thanks. I feel all better now being reminded that

[oDDity]

That's why god invented cocaine. It'll make you feel all better.

[Vadrosaul]

That's why god invented cocaine. It'll make you feel all better.

True but I thought you didn't believe in god

[oDDity]

..or drugs, but I was talking about you.

Endorphins are my only feel good drugs.

[Domarius]

CyberWolf, the reason people play keep clicking on those stat based RPGs that just focus on combat so much is the same reason the old ladies press the poker machine buttons. It doesn't require any thinking, and you get told you'll get more "stuff" if you keep pressing. It's mindless addiction. The majority of the population is stupid and keeps this sort of stuff rife.

 

I work in a game dev company, and I can tell you from even years of experience before I joined, that good game development doesn't blindly strive for "realism", unless you're making an actual simulation and even then you're focusing on the physics and you still take liberties now and then to make sure its still fun.

Games take elements from real life, but present them in a different mechanic that is fun, so it sort of feels real, but the way you do it is fun.

[SneaksieDave]

Huh! Ladder-twink a non-expansion-pack lvl 53 metaphysicist (Anarchy Online) without maxxed stats, no symbiants, only standard gear, into Quantum Wings at will (no mochams or wrangle) and then say it requires no thinking. Heck, it requires thinking, research, external game tools, a calculator, help from at least 4 other players, multi-stage gameplan notes, and a willingness to accept a frustration headache. One surgery session I conducted was the result of a few days of planning and had I think 19 ordered steps. Then again, AO's cool that way.

[Domarius]

The ideal RPG would be one where you create a character from a fixed stat point pool that does not change for the entire game. During the game, if you start using skills that you didnt put points into, then it puts points into it, but takes them from the least used other skills. That would let you create a completely unique character, and your fame and progression would be based on your own skill as a player, rather than your Dad's wallet size for your cable internet and your lack of a life that is filled up with mindlessly clicking.

[oDDity]

You still have to mindlessly click to get the new skill though. It's only a difference in method not a difference in time involved.

Many MMos, such as SWG let you branch into new skills at the expense of old ones any time you like.

[Domarius]

Well that pool idea was more about solving the "If you waste enough of your life clicking, you can be the best at everything in the game" syndrome. The pool idea would create a more interesting game world of all characters technically equally as powerful but all very useful and unique in their own way. The real powerful ones would get that way through aquiring things because of their skill, not because of how long they spent clicking.

[Ombrenuit]

I still remember on WoW, I needed 250 stacks of rugged leather to get an epic amulet called Amulet of the Darkmoon. I estimated that it would take me 25+ hours to attain this. I took a day off contemplating what I should do, and I never returned. Two weeks later I canceled my account. I've never felt so hollow.

[oDDity]

I know, it's pathetic.

I myself used to do this sort of thing in nEverquest years ago.

Everythig in that game either involved killing a thousand monsters for XP...killing a thousand of them for loot, kill a thousand of them for a quest because one would eventually drop a rare quest item, killing them for a quest becasue if you killed enough eventually a rare quest monster would spawn..killing a thousard to get items needed for crafting...killing a thousand to fight your way though to the base of a dungeon...everything nt he game came down to standing there whacking away at mobs and spending the time inbetween either healing or recovering mana - and there was ludicrous amount of downtime in EQ.

Yet, it had 350,000 regular players at that time, paying a monthly fee for the pleasure of doing it. Go figure.