Dario D.

Well, I just loaded the training mission, and realized it uses ambient sound more than whatever I was playing before (and whatever I was playing before that). So, I would NORMALLY be thinking I've got it figured out (the training mission just uses more ambient sound), but then there's Baddcog's issue (and Serpentine's, which is different still).

Yeah, I'm playing Patently Dangerous. I hear the guards' footsteps VERY loud, and the ambient sounds are nearly silent. (I can baaarely hear the wind outside)

It's on max. (here's what I've got) So, I take it the ambient sounds are supposed to be pretty loud? Like in Thief?

Is it just my sound card (X-Fi Xtreme Gamer), or do the existing Dark Mod missions not make much use of ambient sound? Example: in T2, you'd hear a loud, scary hum while standing in one room, then it would change to a different loud, scary hum when you stepped into another. In the Dark Mod missions, everything seems pretty quiet, at least on my end. Edit: argh, I put this in the "I want to Help" section, thinking it was "Help".

I wonder if the Wolf version of idTech4 will be released at the same time, since it's technically still idTech4. Perhaps the lighting code could be lifted from there. (and stuff like Parallax Occlusion mapping <notice engravings on back wall)

Hmm, I see. Yeah, I added a note to my original post clarifying that, by default, I never assume an engine switch is practical, but I thought there could've been a chance that switching from idTech4 to idTech4-modified might've been on the easy side. (but, again, you also have the problem that if nobody's going to PLAY Wolfenstein, why move to it?) I hope idTech4 goes open-source soon. Last I read, there was some potential issue with Activision.

I did a forum search for this, but, surprisingly, it seems nobody has brought it up yet. Have you guys (Dark Mod devs) looked into soft-shadows/lighting in Wolfenstein (the 2009 one)? What are the implications of finding some way to get similar soft-shadows into the Doom3 version of the idTech4 engine? It's not terribly important - and I don't know if making a full engine-switch would be a good idea, since I don't think anyone's going to be playing Wolfenstein... I don't know the numbers, though - but soft shadows would be cool, nonetheless. Update: forgot to point out that I don't actually expect an engine switch to be practical, but I just don't know for certain. (this engine is a mystery to me) In Wolfenstein, most lights don't actually cast any shadows at all (I guess it's too computationally "expensive"), but, of course, the key ones in each room/area do. It would certainly eat into Dark Mod performance (for those who put shadow detail on High), but would make a welcome addition, if there can be some way to get the effect into the game. No idea what the specifics are. This is all just food for thought. Anyway, here are some shots of the lighting, in a Dark Mod-esque context: (full-size image) --- also shows some scattered indoor footage, with Dark Mod-style interiors. And here's a lamp being knocked around.

Actually, I'm having some codec troubles with Thief 2 again. (crashing at all videos)

I had 2 instances of strange footsteps in Chalice: 1) The guards' footsteps often sounded very loud, as if they were always walking right where I was standing. (this might have only been in certain areas, like the crown room, but I wasn't paying it too much attention) 2) At one point, I kept having to reload a certain part, because I would fire a noise-maker arrow from behind a statue, then immediately start hearing a flurry of loud footsteps a couple feet away (my own, I guess) even though I was holding still... and the guards would catch me because of it. I finally just canceled firing the noisemaker arrow, and tried something else. (the spot was in the room with the crown in the center... I was hiding behind the statue off to the left <that is, left if you're facing the large double-doors that don't open)

Ah. Never seen that mission. I guess the key thing here would be making the rat placement brainlessly easy, so that there is no rigging needed by the mapper. (but perhaps, later, you could add manual controls - like trigger-distance, or event-based-spawning - in case someone wants to make something like, say, a noisy event that triggers a whole ton of rats to suddenly scurrying out from behind something). Yeah, my whole problem with permanent rats is... well.. when do you ever SEE rats indoors? (except when they just bolt by for a second) Yeah, the idea was to first think about just regular decals, and then, engine and time-permitting, see if it would make sense to allow the player to draw freely. (it might be taxing to have the engine keep track of 500 tiny dot decals, but maaaaaybe there's a way to bake them into a single decal after each mouse-stroke, or create an on-the-fly projector texture, or something. No idea how the D3 engine works)

I was just dropping in to see if anyone had a solution for that. I have that problem with my Steam copy of Doom3, but I never crash. Anyone know the exact command line to use? I tried "+set fs_game darkmod" ala some threads I found, but it still boots into Doom 3, and I have to activate the mod manually. Does this below look right?

It's often the case that these games start out hard at first, then get easy (combat-wise). If the combat HERE gets too easy for veterans, maybe a "realistic combat damage" setting could be added eventually, to make yourself easier to kill (and maybe the enemies too).

And then... Notice the nearby empty tables...

Thanks, all! By the way, I updated the pack (had to drop the bass in a couple ambient sounds, add some echo to the owls, etc... oh, and move the monster sound into the FX folder, lol), so... those who have already downloaded it might want to get the updated zip. (same link)

I've been playing The Dark Mod in my burn-out time (that gap between work and work, when I just can't work anymore), and am really quite impressed. I think this is the Thief sequel that Ion Storm meant to make (just with less missions at the moment). There's the old-school Thief that everyone loves, and then there's a pile of new stuff that brings a load of freshness to the game. Well, I just wanted to drop a quick idea or two for the devs. One is "quick-rats", and one is "marking-dough". Quick-rats This would be a new, very, very, very simple implementation of rats that would make them close to 100% realistic (and kind of scary at times), with almost 0 CPU usage. The idea is that the mapper just places a stationery rat-spawner in a corner (requires no AI or anything) and when the player gets within X feet of it (let's say a random range between 10-40ft, re-chosen each time you boot up the mission) a rat just spawns, and darts forward (FAST), then disappears. The mapper would ideally put these at the bases of walls, pointing along the corners where the walls/floor meet, so that the rats always run against the base of a wall (or up in the rafters, or wooden beams above a hallway). So, the effect would be this: you're walking through a dark kitchen, and ahead of you, through a doorway into a pantry (food, you know), you see a rat dart across the base of a wall, behind some rubbish. And that's it. Ideally, I think it would be best if the quick-rats were placed plentifully in maps (you just point them in the direction you want the rat to spawn/run), but had a VERY low chance of actually triggering a rat... (perhaps, upon load, they could all do a calculation to decide whether or not they should just delete themselves for this run... and that would just leave a few of them active... or even none at times, so that they're more of a treat) If you wanted to get fancy, you could add another completely sound-based object called "rat-scuffling" (rats suddenly scrambling)... and/or another called "rat-scratching" (rats digging at something), which respond to sounds you make. (ie, "rat-scuffling" would trigger when you make a loud noise somewhat nearby, and "rat-scratching" would start up playing at random times, and stop whenever it hears a sound) Maybe guards could notice these (just pass them a glance... or even stop for a second, and stare), and say their "darn rats" bark, on occasion. (the sounds would have to be infrequent enough to not stop EVERY guard, EVERY time he walks by. In fact, maybe the scratching sound could NOT alert guards most of the time, because of the noise they make while walking (at least on loud surfaces). Imagine how cool it would be if you were hiding in a shadow, and noticed that the scratching sound stopped every time a noisy old guard walked by) Marking Dough (or whatever type of marking substance, such as chalk) Marking Dough (which could be like ground Mushrooms, shaped into a white chalk-looking stick... except more gooey and squishy) would give you the simple ability to add tiny decals to doors/walls/etc, so you can mark up places as an easier way to remind yourself of things (like which doors to returned to later). Ideally, a Thief would put this marking stuff on his map, but most of us taffers usually just end up running around in circles, trying to remember which doors were what. Here's some Photoshop: I was originally thinking of gum or chalk (this idea has been floating around in my head for years) but mushroom pulp would be harder for guards to spot than gum, and easier for you to clean than chalk (also easier to draw on smooth surfaces, like marble floors, and glass windows). Oh, and mushrooms are Thiefy, for some reason... but this is an open issue, so you could use anything for this. I guess you'd just frob decals to remove them... and maybe there'd still be a faint mark there, just for realism. Other details might be: -Guards might stop and notice them. (maybe they can start snooping for you if they spot more than one) -Maybe have 2 or so different decals to choose from (unless there's some easy way to let the player draw freely, like with a little spraying device, or something) Matches Pretty soon here you'll have to implement a whole Deus Ex inventory screen, but my last idea (which isn't important to gameplay in the slightest, but fun) is carrying a small Matchbox that you can use to light candles... just for romantic purposes... and putting into Benny's shoes. Excuse my enthusiasm, but Dark Mod is just really good. Thread updated: Smaller Player Footprint (as in collision box/cylinder/whatever) I noticed I had a hard time squeezing into some corners that really looked like a person should fit in them (I love the sense of feeling "real" in Thief games, experienced - by me, at least - when you're able to slink around in a very agile, realistic manner... It kind of made me wish there was prone, I noticed while playing). You can notice the issue here by trying to press up against a table or dresser; you're blocked at quite a large distance. So, I guess this is more like a bug report about the player being kind of fat.

It almost looks like Flashbomb light. Could this be a light issue?

Great release! I hope FM development gets rolling full-steam ahead.

Congrats on the Dark Mod release!! It reminded me today that I've always wanted to pile my old Faceless mission ambient sounds (for anyone who's ancient enough to remember my old, abandoned T2 mission) into a pack, and release it to the other Dromedeers... and now the Dark Mod is out, too (and ever in need content, so I gather)! Most of the sounds in this sound demo MP3 are in the pack, but there are a bunch more. Here's the download. (180mb)