Gildoran

I've often thought that too... In fact, there has already been at least one enormously popular game to do that: Grand Theft Auto 3.

Yes. That's actually how I started to install SDL... "./configure;make;make install" (as per the INSTALL file's instructions)

Don't get me wrong, I like the fact that linux is open source, I enjoy makefiles and g++, and I intend to avoid Vista like the plague, but I've been trying to learn to use mingw, SDL and SCons over the past week, and I feel like strangling the programmers! The thing that's been driving me bonkers is that they either don't have step-by-step installation instructions, or NONE OF THE DOCUMENTATION WORKS! The minGW download page talks about how in 2001 they started bundling a "MinGW distribution" to make installation easy for newbies. Of course, they don't make "MinGW distribution" a link, because that would be too easy. So I search the download page for "MinGW distribution", but none of the links in their download table are called "MinGW distribution". So I look for a bundled mingw (not msys) exe in the "current" group, to no avail. If you're making a bundled installer for newbies, perhaps you should link to it from your download page. I finally found it by searching through their Source-forge page. Fortunately, MSYS was a breeze to find and install. So after successfully compiling some basic minGW programs just to test that my installation was working, I decided I'd like to install SDL so I could get some practice with openGL... unfortunately, their instructions for installing SDL for use with minGW are generally incomplete and wrong. I first downloaded the mingw SDL developer runtime tar file. The README files didn't really cover how to install it, so read the INSTALL file, which says to run ./configure... only there's no configure file in the same directory as the INSTALL file. So I go look for various instructions on the web. One suggests compiling the source code; this works much better, since the source-code zip actually contains a ./configure file. Likewise, it makes just fine. Unfortunately the instructions I've found on the web don't describe what to do after that, or if they do, they reference non-existant files. (for example, one wanted me to copy /usr/local/lib/sdl.dll, which actually turned out to be in /usr/local/bin/sdl.dll - before that, I was thinking they must have been talking about /usr/local/lib/libsdl.dll.a, which obviously didn't work) After much struggling and some help from #SDL on IRC, I finally get a program to compile and link. It doesn't seem to work, since it doesn't produce any output, but at least (I think) I managed to link to the damned SDL libraries, no thanks to any of their documentation. So then I've been hearing about SCons, and after reading through their documentation (it's pretty nice actually), I think it sounds like a cool replacement for make, and I'd like to try it out to compile the mingw program that worked. So I download and install it, which is a breeze, but it doesn't open up any readme on how to actually run scons... so rereading the documentation, it suggests that to run it, I just type "scons" in the cmd console and it'll read the SConstruct file. So I try typing "scons" in both MSYS and cmd, but in both cases, the command seems to be unknown. And the documentation doesn't describe how to install the command. I would have thought that the installer would do whatever the documentation doesn't tell you how to install. Does no open-source software actually do what the documentation says it will?! (ok, so some works great, such as GIMP or Python, which I love, but these last few packages have been driving me nuts)

Although the naked pagan is quite the beauty, you'll just have to trust me when I say you don't want to see the sorceress naked.

I agree with you on both accounts. I'm justing saying it's annoying that we say to third-world countries "I'm sorry, but we've already used up the Earth's capacity for pollution, so you can't release any." If we care about the impact of pollution on the Earth, we should be trying to undo our own damage, rather than tell others they're not allowed to follow in our footsteps. (lead by example and all that) I'd be all for a tax to produce solar-panels for third-world countries... But I'm under the impression that coal produces more energy per resources spent than solar power, so if they have to spend their own money, they'd likely want to choose coal. The externalities may be costly, but if you're a starving nation where every bit of energy is extremely valuable, the benefits of the extra energy from coal-plants may outweigh the costs (to your own country) of the amount that you pollute. In the end, I think it all boils down to finding the correct level of pollution that gives the greatest increases in quality of life per the harm it does to people and the environment. Unfortunately, I'm no expert on where that balance lies. I'm just skeptical of anybody who says it lies at one extreme or another. Without a doubt, a landscape covered in coal power plants would be terrible, but to a poor nation, having a single coal power plant is almost certainly more beneficial than having none at all.

I watched and agreed with The Inconvenient Truth, and after watching this video, I must say I found it very persuasive. In particular, I had considered Al Gore's ice-core temperature/CO2 graph to be a strong argument for global warming until this video pointed out that the CO2 line lags behind the temperature by about 800 years. Also, several of the things the video mentioned were consistent with prior stuff I've seen. A few examples: When they talk about the global warming report erroneously stating that mosquitoes can only survive in the tropics, I was reminded of nature videos where caribou on permafrost were constantly attacked by huge swarms of mosquitoes. I've also taken a (single) college class on weather/climate, which had pointed out that water vapor has a much larger greenhouse effect than CO2, and this video echoed that. And their explanation of why temperatures would affect CO2 was consistent with my knowledge of aquariums and water chemistry. Actually, if you take the time to watch the video, they cover that issue near the end, saying that at least for developing nations it could be very bad... Perhaps it may be a good idea for developed nations to work on renewable energy sources, but carbon-based energy can be vital for boot-strapping an economy. According to the video, human influence is dwarfed by things like volcanoes (though I don't consider their mention of decaying vegetation to be a valid source of CO2, since it ends up getting reabsorbed). And they lay out arguments/evidence that at least provide reason to think that yes, it may be a coincidence. In particular, they provide evidence suggesting that our climate is linked to sun-spots, and that global warming may cause high concentrations of CO2 rather than the other way around. (although CO2 does have a greenhouse effect, this video suggests that it's negligible compared to the other influences, such as the sun) If you consider CO2 to be "poison" then perhaps you need to carefully reconsider breathing. If you watch the video, they shoot all that down. I'd like to request that everybody at least watch the video before disagreeing with it...

I completely agree with Maximius about The Cradle... I didn't find it the least bit scary. Admittedly, when I first started playing the level I was worried about what they were going to spring on me, and I found the door in the attic kind of scary, but once I encountered the puppets I wasn't all that scared anymore. In particular I found the stuff about "the cradle must have remembered you" to be really sappy. However, I did find RotC to be scary, but that was probably because I had thought haunts were invincible when I first played it, so I more or less tried to ghost it. (pun intended)

Ask that question at TTLG... this isn't a Thief tech-support forum.

What do you mean?! That's clearly Jesus missing a large chunk of his forehead! He must have had an accident with a chainsaw... Why, it's almost as holy as this image. Obviously, Macsen's roof was blessed to protect him from the demon occupation of Wales. Either that, or Santa thought it was a good place to take a nap.

Are you sure that's for real? I swear that sounds just like something straight out of The Onion.

I was under the impression that the way game companies bribe game reviewers into giving good scores isn't by "purchasing advertisements", but rather by giving them early access to new games. Since gamers seem to be more interested in hearing about new games than about reviews, any smart magazine will prioritize early access over accurate assessments.

I seem to remember hearing that Kostner was going to use an english accent, except it turned out to be so incredibly god-awful that everybody insisted he stop using it.

What necromancy is this?! Quick, somebody get the holy-water while I restrain the accursed thread!

I haven't played as many FMs as other people, but some of my favorites would probably be: Ominous Bequest (this is pretty close to my idea of the perfect map) Keyhunt (I also consider this nearly perfect) The Focus Rowena's Curse Into The Maelstrom Saints and Thieves (since you like OMs, you may want to try this first) Old Comrades, Old Debts Through No Vault of my Own

Just out of curiosity, when you say you don't like FMs, how many have you tried, and which ones? Is it possible you could have played some lower quality ones and missed some of the classics?

I seem to remember pillories, bloody racks and iron maidens, among other things. Without a doubt they were engaged in the worst sorts of torture. I don't think it's so simple. Would stealing from Nazis be wrong? What if it helps the war effort against them? No doubt in Thief, Pagans viewed the Hammerites much like Nazis. For one thing, the Hammerites would have been perfectly happy to gather up all the Pagans and let them rot in Cragscleft or even torture them to death - if they could find them. When the Trickster went on the rampage, he killed Cityfolk - people who, from his view, committed or were complicit in numerous crimes against nature. (read some of Thief's pre-mission Pagan poetry about houses built of murdered trees and dead rock) In the case of the Trickster's Dark Project, if you've looked at his manifesto, it's clear that the reason he wants to plunge the world into darkness isn't just to rule it; he wants to prevent the wonder and mysteries of the world and peoples' dreams from being snuffed out by the encroachments of civilization and scientific understanding. What you really have is two diametrically opposed factions who both want to wrest control of the world from each other, because they believe the other side is evil and they can improve it. Again, I haven't seen much to suggest that the Pagans don't have a moral code - it's just that both Hammerites and Pagans felt that stealing from or murdering the other side was legitimate and warranted. Pagans were usually outnumbered (at least in the city), so they were forced to be more stealthy, whereas Hammerites could take things by force. I see far more similarities between Nazis and Hammerites than between Nazis and Pagans. Consider that Nazis thought they were carrying out God's will and Hammerites liked to round up Pagans for incarceration and torture, even working them to death. Despite this, I don't think one can unequivocally say that Hammerites are evil. Some Hammerites were saintly, others were inhumanly cruel, and the same could likely be said for the Pagans. Certainly neither faction was perfect. But I don't think Thief was a game of good vs. evil; it was more about the balance between nature and civilization and the clash of two radically different ideologies.

I can't remember... In Thief, when you pick up a crate, doesn't it teleport out of existance so there's only an icon showing? If it doesn't physically exist in the game world, spinning around infinitely fast doesn't make it move infinitely fast, so it's not as immersion-breaking. I certainly noticed it. And it does have big problems... for example, weren't we talking about capping impulses because of problems with people spinning heavy objects around and killing people with them or something?

I would argue that you shouldn't be able to move the crate infinitely fast. If the crate is always in the center of your view AND you can move the view infinitely fast, then you can move the crate infinitely fast. Ergo, I think either we should slow down the view, or not always have the crate in the center. My personal preference would be to allow the player to move their view as fast as they want, within 90 degrees of the crate, and have the crate move toward the center of the view at a speed determined by its mass. I think capping the speed of the crate when you let go isn't a valid way of preventing you from throwing it too far.

As much as I'd like to see decreased sensitivity when carrying objects, I gather most other people don't seem to want that, so it likely won't be in vanilla TDM. We have no plans for a free-look modifier at this time, but maybe that could be implemented later on down the road.

I'm inclined to disagree about "sort decal" affecting z-fighting. I haven't specifically worked with "sort decal", but I believe it has a different effect - it makes sure that the decal is drawn under other translucent surfaces. For example, if you have a blood-stain on a wall, and a window in front of it, "sort decal" should cause the window to be correctly drawn OVER the blood-stain. Whether or not the bloodstain z-fights should be dependent on whether it has an identical triangle to the surface it covers, or whether polygonOffset is used. Maybe they meant that you should use DECAL_MACRO or polygonOffset.

Meh... let's go back to describing our own ideas for a TDM background - that was far more interesting. What ideas have other people had?

Well, the whole reason Tolkien wrote the LOTR was to provide a history for his fictional languages to develop in.

The above reminded me of another idea I had wanted to see. It was a complete immersion breaker for me to be able to read precursor manuscripts in T1; the manuscripts' modern language clashed strikingly with the age of the ruins apparent from their Egyptian architecture. I figure it'd be interesting if in TDM, the writings in ancient ruins resembled Welsh or Old English or Germanic languages. Something close enough to English for the player to guess at the meaning, yet different enough to make full, unambiguous comprehension impossible. The downside is that it would disadvantage non-native speakers... such a shame since it could really lend to the atmosphere.

Tolkien covered that - he pretty much said that the Red Book (the fictitious ancient manuscript containing the LOTR) was written in a different language (Westron) and he was just translating it into English or sometimes analogous languages as part of the storytelling. For example, Rohirric, which was related to Westron, got translated into Old English. Often hobbit words were translated into Old English too. In the Appendices, he covered the various time systems and names of months in great (and boring) detail, but during the story always translated dates into English equivalents. In the case of October, the hobbits call it Winterfilth, though even this is a translation based on Old English (winter-fylleth or "winter fall"). Some info about Middle Earth calendars Some info about languages and translations of LOTR Yes, I used to be an LOTR geek.

Allow me to use my awesome psychic powers to predict oDDity's response: Of course, it certainly doesn't help when you cause somebody's living standards to be non-existent or bomb their neighborhood and family with missiles, but we Americans can't be bothered to pay attention to such trivial details.