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Frost_Salamander

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Posts posted by Frost_Salamander

  1. I feel I should add - due to my blunder with the volumetric lights shadows I didn't realize I that I was looking at soft shadows for maps instead of stencil when I was comparing them.  After some more playing around I definitely see that soft shadows with stencil looks better.  So I get what all the fuss is about now.

     

     

    • Like 1
  2. 1 hour ago, stgatilov said:

    I'd like to remind that the core question is: what should we do now?

    Sorry - my response was a long way of saying I'd be fine with going to maps only as a strategy.  I voted option 1.

    But this is without understanding some things in your top post.

    What is an 'Alpha-tested shadow occluder'  and how does it affect me as a mapper?

    What is an example of a translucent object that won't cast shadows?

  3. 21 minutes ago, HMart said:

    ... where some effects even in stencil shadow mode, will use shadow maps, for example volumetric lights shadows, are shadow maps.

    Apologies, this is where I went wrong.  It happened to be a volumetric light shadow I was looking at 

    • Like 1
  4. I'm no graphics nerd, but I can barely tell the difference between the two.  What I can tell from messing around a bit:

    • soft shadows of low quality look like garbage with both maps and stencils (EDIT: wrong, I didn't realize I was looking at shadow maps for a volumetric light shadow.  Stencil definitely looks better).
    • increasing soft shadow quality decreases performance in both implementations.  I think the CPU/GPU of the end user would influence which is gives better performance
    • both maps and stencils can produce a pixelated shadow if you look close enough. (EDIT: wrong.  Again, was looking at a volumetric light shadow).

    I tend to use maps, because for whatever reason I seem to get a few more FPS out of them.

    As a mapper, I am certainly NOT interested in endlessly tweaking a scene to make the shadows look perfect.  I just don't care enough.  If they look shockingly bad I will put some effort into it though (which will probably mean just disabling them for the offending entity).  It's rare that I feel this is necessary though.

    So I guess I don't really get the argument that stencils are amazing and maps are crap.  I just don't see it or am too dense to notice. (EDIT: indeed I was being dense.  I was comparing shadow maps with shadow maps because I was looking at a volumetric light shadow).

    Also, in my last couple of missions I had graphical bugs that only showed up with stencil shadows enabled.  It would be nice to not have to deal with that all the time.

     

  5. On 3/4/2024 at 5:59 PM, AluminumHaste said:

    Not so much that they chose not to use it, but that's it's extra work on top of what's likely to be a monumental amount of work already.

    Yep.  I'd gladly include an automap in my missions....  if someone else were to draw them all for me.

    • Like 3
  6. 3 hours ago, cvlw said:

    Greetings TDMers.

    Question about brushes such as NODRAW, LADDER, and similar brushes.

    When should those be converted to func_static or left as worldspawn?

    Is there any harm in leaving small brushes like this as worldspawn?

    I would only leave it as worldspawn if you need it to act like worldspawn.  For example, if you have a nodrawsolid_wood brush covering a wonky wooden model and you want AI to be able to walk over it smoothly or it is to perform some sealing function.  Other than that, just make a func_static so it gets filtered out in DR when you want to only look at sealing brushwork.

    So no harm in leaving it as worldspawn, but on the other hand you might get some benefit to making it a func_static.

    • Like 1
  7. Getting a bunch of warnings on map start, I think related to subtitles?  It happens when I put the AI entity 'atdm:ai_townsfolk_female' in my map.

     

    WARNING:Couldn't load SRT file                                                 
    'subtitles/lady02//tdm_ai_lady_alertdown_to_idle_heard08.srt' for sound        
    'sound/voices/lady02/tdm_ai_lady_alertdown_to_idle_heard08.ogg' according to   
    decl 'tdm_ai_lady02'                                                           
    WARNING:Couldn't load SRT file                                                 
    'subtitles/lady02//tdm_ai_lady_alertdown_to_idle_seen_evidence04.srt' for sound
     'sound/voices/lady02/tdm_ai_lady_alertdown_to_idle_seen_evidence04.ogg'       
    according to decl 'tdm_ai_lady02'                                              
    WARNING:Couldn't load SRT file 'subtitles/lady02//tdm_ai_lady_idle09.srt' for  
    sound 'sound/voices/lady02/tdm_ai_lady_idle09.ogg' according to decl           
    'tdm_ai_lady02'                                                                
    WARNING:Couldn't load SRT file 'subtitles/lady02//tdm_ai_lady_idle11.srt' for  
    sound 'sound/voices/lady02/tdm_ai_lady_idle11.ogg' according to decl           
    'tdm_ai_lady02'  

     

  8. 15 hours ago, MirceaKitsune said:

     Must say it got rather tedious at some point: Finished it after over half a month, didn't manage to get one optional objective done as I stopped trying to find it. 

    Let me guess - was it the:

    Spoiler

    Burns/Atkinson objective?  The idea was that was for completionists, but that was a dumb idea because I think most people wanted to finish it but weren't necessarily up for exploring every nook and cranny in the map.  Lesson learned there 🙂

     

    • Like 1
  9. 1 hour ago, datiswous said:

    I don't know if it's mentioned anywhere else on the Wiki, but it's worth mentioning that the first global keywords are for sound:

        // Use on of the predefined surface types like:
        // none, metal, stone, flesh, glass, wood
        stone

    And this:

        //surftype15
        //description "carpet This is a carpet texture."

    I think this is sound as well, but I also think 'description' does other stuff, for example for using with vine arrows:

        stone
        description	"vine_friendly"

    If someone has a list (or link to code) where all this is defined for TDM so mappers are aware, that would be useful.

    I would also move the 'special keywords' section up so it's before the obsolete stuff - that old stuff needs to be relegated to the very bottom.  I would also change the title of that section from 'No ambient and frob -stages needed' to something like 'Deprecated stages' and say it's just there for historical reference.

    • Like 1
    • Thanks 1
  10. 1 hour ago, datiswous said:

    Looking at the material file wiki page:

    Frob Highlight Stage isn't needed anymore since 2.11 right? I thought I understood that there might still be a reason to use it sometime. If not, I'll update that wiki page.

    Edit: The info is actually already there, but in a confusing way.

    It is confusing.

    The first example shouldn't have the frob highlight section in it, and a note should be added to the text saying the example is for version 2.11 and greater.

    The subsequent stages should be under a different heading clearly labelled as being deprecated/obsolete and they are only there for reference.

    • Like 1
  11. 1 hour ago, wesp5 said:

    I don't know what you mean by that, but I got the impression that several of the latest changes were made to get the old Thief community more interested in TDM. In that sense this isn't really about "new players" 

    yeah this is what I meant, sorry for any confusion.  Daft has mentioned this several times as motivation.

  12. 1 hour ago, chakkman said:

    May I ask where you got that "feedback from players" from, and who the "several mission authors" supporting making mantling faster are exactly?

    I was asked to help test the mantling changes and I was neutral about them, but I am supportive of any changes that might encourage new players while at the same time not ruining my own experience.

    Since upgrading to the 2.12 beta branch I've got used to the faster mantling and quite like it now.  Same with the frobbing changes, leaning and all the other stuff that's gone in.

  13. 6 hours ago, chakkman said:

    I have Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 in my Steam library, but, never really gotten into them, because of that party stuff. Might give it another go one day. My taste and preferences change a bit from time to time. ;) 

    I'm a huge fan of those games, but I'm putting off getting BG3 because I'm a bit too worried they'll be too much like the Divinity games (from Larian).  Those were good, but a bit too cartoony for me and I never came close to finishing them.  I just didn't feel compelled to invest the time into them.

    If you don't want to manage a party in Baldurs Gate games, just go solo.  Your one character gets all the XP instead of it being spread out among the party members 😉.  If you feel you are missing out on companion quests, you can just take them in your party while you do their quest and then ditch them.

    • Like 2
  14. 1 hour ago, stgatilov said:

    I'm not sure you are right. It seems that it is limited by area scissor.
    Basically, take axis-aligned 2D bounding box of the door visportal: that would be the scissor of the outer area. The particles should be limited to this rectangle only.

    If you move around, this rectangle will change of course.

    Well, if you say so.  If I remove the 'areaLock' spawnarg from the rain patches, it falls through the roof and it looks the same whether the door is open or closed.  I'm just saying that opening the door doesn't seem to make the rain appear inside as you suggested above.

    Regardless, I'm not advocating the areaLock method, just reporting observations.

  15. Just now, peter_spy said:

    IMO there should be a warning of some sorts on this page. This tutorial was written by Fidcal ages ago, and there are possibly tons of things that might be severely outdated, and practices that would better be discouraged.

    yeah totally.  One of the outputs of this discussion will be to update that page.

  16. 1 hour ago, stgatilov said:

    It was possible in theory to run it automatically during dmap (just like e.g. you never have to run aas tool directly, because dmap calls it automatically), but I'm afraid it would annoy everyone because it may take quite a lot of time depending on settings.

    Now that some people have some practice with this, should we change it?

    I haven't personally run it so not sure how long it actually takes.  @Amadeus how long did it take for WIS?

    @stgatilov To make runParticle part of dmap,  is there a way to check if runParticle needs to be run or not first?  For example, if there are no particles present with 'collisionStatic' keyword than just skip it.  I wouldn't say this is big deal, but it's a manual step that the mapper could easily forget to run on release day...

     

    1 hour ago, stgatilov said:

    What do you mean by "default" behavior?
    Default behavior of what? particles?

    I meant the default weather materials - but Amadeus covered that in his question - thanks.

    1 hour ago, stgatilov said:

    As for areaLock, it does not restrict particles to single area. It only disables the whole system if renderer proves player does not see the specified area. As long as the door is open, you should still see rain falling indoors, no?

    Actually this doesn't seem to be the case.  The rain seems to stay outside the visleaf if the door is open. In the example screenshot from inside the Inn in In Plain Sight, the rain patch actually extends over the roof of this building.  With the door open, the rain 'stays outside'.  However, you're right and still with this method you need to use individual patches and place them carefully (although I didn't have to worry about the height).  It's not perfect because rain will still poke through awnings and stuff outside.

     

    ips-rain.jpg

  17. I just recently became aware of this feature: https://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=Particle_collisions_and_cutoff

    Unfortunately I completely missed it, as when I went to create weather effects in my FMs I just followed this (which doesn't mention it): https://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=A_-_Z_Beginner_Full_Guide_Page_3#Rain_and_Snow

    The point of this thread is to a) make people aware of it and b) gather feedback from any mappers that have used it so we can get some mapper-focused documentation in the Wiki.  The page above is great for background information about how it works, but as a mapper I really just want to know:

    • What are the limitations of this (i.e. when should it be used and when shouldn't it be used)?
    • Why isn't it the default behaviour?  Why all this work to get it into the map?
    • What built-in support for it exists (particle definitions, materials, etc). Do I need to create all this stuff myself?
    • Texture layout vs. Linear layout: what's the difference in the end, pros/cons, why would I use one over the other...
    • Why does it need a separate command (runParticle)? Can this just not be bundled in with dmap?
    • A clear, step-by-step instruction on how to implement it in a map from beginning to end using a simple use case.

    Tagging some users who have relevant experience with this: @stgatilov @Goldwell @Amadeus

  18. Creating a new thread for this as it was being discussed in an old beta-testing thread starting here: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/21822-beta-testing-high-expectations/&do=findComment&comment=490751

    I suppose the main questions are:

    • when should this spawnarg be used, if at all?
    • why was it introduced in the first place?
    • Can we get it documented properly on the Wiki so misuse isn't propagated?

    @stgatilov @Dragofer

     

    • Like 1
    • Thanks 1
  19. 5 hours ago, stgatilov said:

    Some ways to fix the issue:

    1. Use _black texture. It is (0, 0, 0), and I am rather sure it will be compressed to (0, 0, 0) by all implementations.
    2. Modify textures/darkmod/sfx/black_matt to be full black (0, 0, 0).
    3. Add forceHighQuality to the stage which blends textures/darkmod/sfx/black_matt.
    4. Add DDS version of textures/darkmod/sfx/black_matt to core assets.

    Note that points 1, 2, 4 produce equivalent output, i.e. force texture to (0, 0, 0) color.
    Point 3 leaves the texture as (1, 1, 1), but there is no way to do this for all materials: the keyword has to be added to each material.

    Points 1 and 3 look bad because they fix the problem now, but don't stop the problem from happening again in the future.

    Using _black in the water material instead of textures/darkmod/sfx/black_matt fixes it in my WIP, so that will put the problem out of sight for me in the short term, but obviously doesn't address High Expectations. I could release an update for it, but it sounds like you're saying it's not a good long-term fix? 

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