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That doesn't work with me (nothing does), because unlike zylon 'I enjoy sucking moderators cocks, the bigger the better' bane, I dont' back down. He acts all big and brash and then when a mod slaps his wrist, he goes of and has a cry, and returns acting like a good little boy so he won't be banned. He actually cares, whereas I dont give a shit, which is why I've been banned from at least 10 forums.

As for the lockpicking, how does it work? I've read there's apparently a mini-game ruining exploit, see here: http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/index.p...pic=291211&st=0 The poster says, "Smack up twice, and click. Then it gets jammed." ?

Strange. I haven't tried it myself yet, btu people on the official forums seem to think it works. You're editing the ini file in the "\my documents\My Games\Oblivion\" directory?

Proper grouping behaviour - accepted, although this raises an issue that I will discuss in another thread. Vertex cols on map geometry - on the back burner unless I can think of a simpler way to implement this. There may be alternatives, such as limited in-editor texture modification. Light inspector - accepted. We want as much functionality in here as possible. Model viewer - accepted, although I will need more details on what is required here. Entity browser - already a top priority, the flat menu sucks.

Hmmm, wishlist...in no particular order. 1. Proper light inspector, like the one in doom 3. 2. Model viewer that is superior to DoomEd. 3. Revamped entity inspector, Hierarchy based like Dromed and T3ED. Too tired to think of more.

Hmm? Oh, I got temp-banned until Monday. I guess one of the Editor's Guild mods finally got enough sand up their vagina to nag an admin into approving it. This is what it says when I go to the forums: Heh. That definitely doesn't sound like Dave.

Zylon, what are you doing over here when I need you at TTLG? http://ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104978&page=2 For some reason, I feel compelled to argue with some posters who are adamant that Garrett having no scar in Thief 1 and Thief 2, then suddenly having one in Thief 3, is not a continuity error. I really don't know why I'm arguing with them, it's such a pointless thing to tango over, but I just can't stop myself. I find that I'm infuriated by the arrogance and the ignorance.

whoah.. now that looks decent odd.. something like that would really look nice on the mission/loading screen.. what program you use to animate? lightwave? also.. i mentioned that a progress bar is to doomish.. but i spoke to soon.. i can see that a progress bar of some style would fit into that sort of scheme well. and about the roq's.. i read in the doom3world forums where they have to be in powers of 2 to play in doom3 guis.. but im hoping that isnt true.. otherwise it would be a pain to make something like that work. im going to check more into that, but from what i can see.. its a very simple thing to add video.

Well, that question, who we are to determine this, is quite simply answered. We are the creators of The Dark Mod. We decide what goes in and what not. We are doing the work, and therefore we decide where we need and want to spend time on. Apparently you don't understand how a free project works. It's not as if we are getting payed for and the one who pays is in command. We have to make sure that it will be finished and that, first and foremost, WE are satisfied with it. I know this is a fairly minor item on the big scale of things, but in the end I wonder what sort of development beliefs lie in motivation of the project. Does this mod say; LOL! You sound as if you had any rights to demand something. You have not. You can join anytime and create it yourself, if you think it so important, but you have no right at all to demand any asset or tool to be in- or excluded as long as you are not doing any work. You can ask us if we can or want to do it, and if it is a good idea, we may consider it for inclusion, but as long as you are not doing anything yourself you have to be satisfied with what you get, or motivate somebody to do it for you. That's how free projects work. You remind me a lot of the people you often can find on mod and game developer forums. "I have this REALLY GREAT IDEA and I'm looking for people who can do it. What? What do you mean, what can I do??? I had this REALLY GREAT IDEA and this should be enough for you to accept me as your project leader and make all the real work the next four years! Geez, that lousy guy really expected of me to put some additional work into this mod, after spending at least one hour to come up with this REALLY GREAT IDEA" Yes, we are gratefull beyond believe. People like this can be found by the dozen, on any forum. Why should I use the search button? *I* just registered and had this question. Why should I bother to read the FAQ? *I* just registered and expect somebody to answer my question NOW! Why should I wait for three hours before I bump my thread? *I* just registered and expect that others answer my question as soon as I sent it, after all *I* need the answer!!! ...

Hmm, see it was this sort of attitude that confused me about the dark mod to start with... At first I considered the "professional" approach to the mod a bit OTT, but I think i get it now. I hope that it works for the mod but I also hope that the inner workings of the team are a bit less... stalwart(?). After reading these forums and ttlg it seems somebody must be monopolising the fun factor, if the joy is not shared around then people will burn out and not feel the love of the project enough to pull through the long development journey you guys have ahead of you. I am not saying that the love isn't shared internally, but the PR machine seems kinda cold, all I'm saying is that I hope it isn't indicative of the inner workings. As I said, I think I understand the professional approach *and* the cautious PR management but don't take yourselves too seriously to the point you sound arrogant; a great portfolio or a great person to work with, who would you hire? So I get the uber professional approach but I am still concerned about what you guys see as the final result of this project. There is talk about priorities, which I also understand, you have to stay on task, but is this going to turn out as a toolset that you guys are really proud to show off; an excellent Doom 3 mod showing of your leet modding skills, or, a really cool "toolset" that can create great thief levels with? If you are aiming to create a great toolset for 21st century thief levels, then who are you to say that scouting orbs, slowfall speed inv potions aren't essential thief? Apparently LGS thought they were and dismissing them off hand seems kind of arrogant. I know this is a fairly minor item on the big scale of things, but in the end I wonder what sort of development beliefs lie in motivation of the project. Does this mod say; "Look at me, look at me, pleeeeaaase use me, I am a great toolset, and this is going to rock. You are going to have so much fun --- HEY Mister! Yeah, you with a precious small amount of spare time. Devote it to meeeee, cause the pay off? MASSIVE!" Or "Look bud, you are lucky to have this. i am clever, i am great and I've sweated blood and tears to be so - you are so privileged to be using me, you just don't have a clue." I know that this may sound very harsh, but this is why the love of the project (and any project/map/hack/mod/... non-commercial game) has to be there, self sufficient, within the team. Who are you doing this for? no really it is a serious question. I know your time is precious, but IMHO mine is more so, so why should I give a care about this project if it is only your pet bunny and yous can't even be bothered to put in scouting orbs. This is exactly the same problem level editors have, "Who am i making this map for? Why should someone even care to download the map and waste their precious time on it? I should be thankfull that they spent time playing my humble little map". If you can brush these ideas off with the belief that you are self sufficient and you don't have to win over anyone else's attention then good luck! but a little friendliness and flexibility to outside ideas and influences will go a long way to getting people to cheer on your cause. --now aren't you gratefull i took the effort and time to register and rant

Yes, people people, read the title ok? This is the STARTUP screen we're talking about. It's still going to be the default mission loading screen as well, if the FM author doesn't override it. I see no reason why it shouldn't be a clock, since we're talking about TIME here (loading), not how much pressure there is in a tank. Can Gildoran confirm if you can rotate still images? I have yet to hear a good reason for using a 3D model over still images (or a roq video). @Spring: Did you manage to upload the psd yet?

It's only a loading screen, so keep it simple, just the prerednmered clock video in the middle, a rotating second hand model, which lights up the outsdie ring as it rotates, and maybe some overlayed black silhoiuette of some symbol or important object or landmark from the upcoming level.

Actually, if you view the "Windows Vista: Gaming and DirectX 10" video at this URL (http://www.gamespot.com/pc/sim/microsoftfl...utoplay=6141988), he says DirectX 10 is not backwards-compatible (e.g., to like DirectX 9, DirectX 8, etc.) like it was in the past. DirectX 10 will be able to do significantly improved performance because of that backwards-compatibility break. So they're anticipating a 6x performance increase with DirectX 10. They also have Shader Model 4, the next version of HLSL (High-Level Shader Language); there's no difference between pixel shaders and vertex shaders any more; they're just shaders. And there are also geometry shaders. You're able to do longer shaders. The 3-D Desktop they show in the 2nd Developer inteview at that site looks pretty cool.

http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showtopic=3400

the lighting can be tricky, im not shure if it can light more than 1 model at a time, it would look better as a roq but then im not shure if you can control the individual frame rates, ie.. play 1 frame where you want... however.. you wouldnt really need that much control thinking about it... a decent clock video with the gears moving and soft shadows, and then a single modeled clock hand to make the 1 revolution from 0-100% loading would be perfect. as for the stuttering, im kind of hoping it does.. since im used to it seeing that happen in the t1/t2 loading screens with their small clock faces spinning... but if it works out smooth, thats no problem.. either way.. im shure the roq would not stutter.. just any model linked to the loading_gui might, but thats an easy test.. just load a huge doom3 level and see how the loading bar moves.. if it transitions from 0 to 100 smoothly or stops once and a while.

There's really no work at all involved in modeling those clock innards. What about the lighting though, how does that work in the GUI? I think it would look much better to model and render it to video with soft shadows, than have the models actually on the screen with hard doom shadows.. If stuttering in the live clock model doesn't matter, then neither will stuttering in the clock video.

actually, they can be virtually the same.. with the lighting and normal maps they look almost identical. a while back i modeled up a gear and used just the normal map from it on a flat 2 poly mesh and rotated that, it looked real good. its easier to rotate the model with the gui code as you can make gears mesh perfectly and in unison but that only looks good if players vidcards can do perpixel lighting and use normal maps. otherwise it looks rather plain and shabby. but, you could also just make decent gear textures, say 5.. and apply those to a 2 poly mesh and rotate those and it would look real nice, and thats what im hoping we will all decide upon. im not shure if images alone can be rotated, so far i have not seen that done in the guis, but a simple 2 poly .ase can, and its basicly the same thing, plus the benifit of it scaling proper will make it look better over standard gui image scaling which can be a bear to deal with. EDIT: i was thinking of a 3d clockring with the inner workings, here is the clockring style i had in mind, though it isnt textured yet. the only other benifit to this of course is that it wont look so 2d.. instead it will look like its popping out at you.

So you mean it's essentially a combo of the options I listed? You take a model, and rotate it with GUI code? What are the advantages of using a model over a simple image and rotate it the same way?

Okey, so animation works. Now, what are the advantages/disadvantages with: Using an animated (md5..?) 3D model. How detailed can it get. Does it look out of place on a 2D parchment background etc. @Oddity: How much work are we looking at if we go this way? Using GUI scripted "sprites" (for lack of a better term). I suppose a clock is pretty easy to animate this way, since it's all simple circlular rotations. This would mean, as far as I'm aware, to create a few gear pictures, some clock hands and just put them in the GUI.

im going to try some experiments with moving models on the loading screen to see what it does, but im assuming that any movement thats put there will slow down the load times, hopefully im wrong. i have a gear that i was using to rotate and mesh with other gears.. simple model.. so if it works fine, it should be do-able for a better model similar to that clock, which looks real nice.. because im thinking if it takes one revolution of the second hand to indicate loading 0-100% would look nice, even if the clock stopped and stuttered at times would still look nice.

I guess it's not really worth it to remove this function, since I assume loading will be slower as a result? It's a bummer though, if we can't animate it. I guess you could still test how it performs with an animated model or GUI scripted animation. If we wont animate it, I see no reason to make the clock a 3D model. But say we find out we can animate it, and that we want a 3D model. How hard would it be to create something similar (and as detailed) as the placeholder we have now? (Guess this is directed at Oddity) (The clock hands designs are, by the by, available here if that's any help when creating a 3D model. Seems like the screensaver creators just googled "clock hands" and went for the first picture they saw..)

Yes, I'd say go model-ways with the clock.

Yeah I remember saying exactly that in another thread http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showt...=database&st=50 This is the thread where I first pointed out the misleading idea instilled by the "Cyberdeamon in new york" Doom 3 screenshot. and on that page I said this; Just one of many tricks you can use.

Alright, time to get back to these then I guess. First of all, Gildoran got this thing ingame a while back. He and Drumple needs to coordinate their efforts. Second of all, we need to finalize the concepts. I still say we start of with this one (the loading screen) and get it ingame before starting on the main screens (a lot more work). So what's still needed for the loading screen then? 1. The background. I did some work on the trees but that's it. Spring, could you upload the PSD with your latest change (the house) so I can merge that in as well? We could look for a factory type building but honestly I think it's pretty good the way it is. 2. The clock. We need our own original clock. First we need to know how it's going to be animated. Gildoran wanted all the pieces separate, gears, hands etc, and animate them with GUI code. Oddity wanted to model it and Napalm thought we should do still-frame animation. (Napalm is, by the by, not involved in this anymore. I haven't heard from him in months) This needs to be decided, and then the clock should be put together. 3. The title. The original concept had the Dark Mod title over the clock. If we still want it, we need to decide exactly how it should look. I have a few examples, but I'm not too happy with them myself. I'll post them here tomorrow.

More: http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/index.p...howtopic=272868